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Hello there all, just wondering if anyone would have a ballpark estimate of the value of this shotgun. Supposedly my dad told me it is an 8 gauge. I have a pic of an ithica 10 gauge next to the barrel of the double. thanks for the replies









Posted By: CBL1 Re: F. Williams shotgun value?? (pics included) - 08/13/10 10:28 PM
Steven - it comes down to many variables I am afraid , and although I am by no means an expert (plenty are on here though), I have spent some time around some big bores this side of the pond.

More information would be needed on the maker (English?), on the condition, proofing and measurements of the barrels especially, and although the muzzles do not appear in bad shape, it may not be so throughout the remainder of the gun. From the other photos, the wood seems a little worn, but sound and the metal/action fit not bad (although one of the screws seems to bear evidence of some hard work/pressure on it). If you could put up more pictures, you may get some more expert views than mine.

As regards value, it really is a massively wide range; see this

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=184013936

which is a recent example which appears in some worse condition than yours. A well conditioned double 8 with provenance and a strong wildfowling history/maker can often go for >$7-$8k+ or more.
Yea i could definately get some more pictures up. Would you happen to know of any appraisers this side of the atlantic(maryland area)? I guess i should probably put another post up about that. I was thinking about going onto the antiques roadshow(i'd have to buy a ticket).
Looks 8 ga. to me.

The maker is English, as I found out from Google. Here's a 10 ga. one in about the same condition offered for $700.

http://www.gunsinternational.com/F-WILLIAMS-10-BORE-SXS-HAMMER-SPORTING-GUN.cfm?gun_id=100037977
Originally Posted By: stevenjames




http://www.gunsinternational.com/F-WILLIAMS-10-BORE-SXS-HAMMER-SPORTING-GUN.cfm?gun_id=100037977
That 10's been sitting there for sale for several years.

8 ga.'s bring a premium over a 10 ga...price depends on condition. To me pitted bores hurt condition the worst. The photo above shows an ill fitting dolls head....either the gun has been 'shot loose' or it was originally a low quality gun. I suspect both.

Hope I didn't offend anyone frown
nono don't worry about it, i just want to know what i could about it, i didn't know if i had something special or not
Fredrick Williams was a good maker in Birmingham. I have one very similar in 12 ga. I think 400-500 on yours in a good guess.
Yep, Birmingham. There (confusingly) were two separate F Williams I believe...although I might be wrong.

To be honest all of the Fred Williams I've seen have not been of a hight build standard and the engraving to me always looked second rate. Still, it looks interesting!

T
well i do really appreciate the replies from all you fellas, it seems as if the gun isnt worth quite as much as i thought so. I was about to drop $200 or so on a ticket to the roadshow but i might just forget about it now. thank you though for the replies
Hi
I also have a Fred Williams which was my Fathers gun - a 12 bore - address London and Birmingham. Not too sure if it is the same Fred.
Anyone tell me how to add photos and I will post a couple - I have to say it is not the best made gun I have ever handled!!
Frederick William Williams established his business in 1881 at 49-50 Weaman Street, Birmingham. Between 1886 and 1890 he moved to 32-33 Weaman Street, which became known as the Birmingham Gun Works.

Between about 1913 and 1917 the name of the firm changed to Frederick Williams, and in about 1937 to Frederick Williams (Gunmakers) Ltd. Prior to adopting limited liability, the firm claimed a London address, possibly Frederick Williams of 3 Broad Street Station, Liverpool Street.

The firm closed in 1947.

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Frederick Williams was recorded as a gun maker at 47 1/2 Whittall Street, in 1873. He moved in about 1877 to 34 Bath Street. In the early 1880s the address was 33-34 Bath Street, and in about 1886 it was 34 Bath Street only. Frederick may have died in about 1886 because the firm was not recorded after that date.

It may be that Frederick was Frederick William Williams, born 6 August 1827 in Birmingham, and the son of Frederick Williams and Ann Gibbins. If this is so, he married Betsey Wakeham (b.1829 in Birmingham) and, according to the 1891 census, they lived at 73 Soho Road, Birmingham. They had at least three sons, Frederick (b.1849) who became a gun maker, Frank (b.1854) who became a jeweller, and George (b.1875) for whom no trade was recorded. They also had at least one daughter, Fanny (b.1856) who married Lewis Hall (b.1856), a jeweller.

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Frederick Williams
Established at 3 Broad Street Station, Liverpool Street, London in 1912, the firm moved to 107 Bishopsgate in 1913. They closed in 1918. This may have been the London office of Frederick Willam Williams of Birmingham.

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Fred Williams of Queen Street London. Most likely a gun dealer, circa 1900.

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Yet another Heminway
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=184422769

Pete
Pete that seller has been 'trot lining' that Hemingway on Gunbroker for several years.....until he runs into someone with lots of money and no gun sense it will keep dangling from the line.
I'd been interested to hear what Road Show had to say.....if it was mine I'd clean the barrels real good...then get an estimate on any repairs that might need to be made (for someone that doesn't know guns this might be a way to at least find out what's possibly wrong with the gun).

Then I'd list her on Gunbroker starting at 5 hundred and see if she finds a new home.

Or put in the sale section here it's real simple there might be someone interested....if here I'd list it at 5 hundred or best offer with a deadline of some sorts.
There is a great deal of info On; Fred Williams, "Gun and Cycle maker",to be found in the archives of this forum. Go to: search, and type in, F.Williams. well worth the effort!



Ok - I think I have worked out how to insert photos. The proof marks show 'not for ball' so looks like it was made between 1875 and 1887. Barrels are just twist rather than damascus.
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