Here are some pics of a 16g Clark & Sneider from around 1880 or so. Neat gun, fully of innovative features.

I'll post more pics on my blog with some info on what you're seeing. Should be up in a few days.

Thanks

OWD


Side of action


Top of action


Bottom of action


Action open, barrel stop disengaged


Toplever & safety

Very nice!! I have two of their catalogues, 1878 and 1883. The 1883 has Clark crossed out on the cover

Are there any models for the hammerless guns pictured in either catalog? Any mention of different models or grades?

I think this is a middle-grade gun. I've seen pics of fancier ones.

Thanks

OWD

This is the only gun pictured in the 1883 catalogue, but they list hammerless guns at $100, $130, $175, $225, and $300.

Beautiful gun OWD!!!
Take a look at that direct slap in the face of Dan Lefever’s ‘Automatic Hammerless’ with the phrase on their brochure saying, ‘The Original American Hammerless’!!

Thanks for posting that page in the catalog! Jeff

Jeff-

The Baltimore Historical Society has a file on Sneider, including an old catalog.

I'm going to check it out when I'm down there.

OWD

Good luck!! That was the poorest place I ever tried to do research. Their attitude was they owned the information and were going to charge for any use of it. I wanted to get color slides of their 1903 Baltimore Arms Co. catalogue, for use in my Double Gun Journal article on Baltimore Arms Co. They wanted to charge more then Cote' pays for articles for the slides and then some kind of royalty for every issue of the magazine sold!!!

Trebling, when was the hammerless Lefever introduced?

Sneider & Lefever both had hammerless patents issued in 1880, Sneider's was a little earlier. Am currently away from home so don't have my list with me.
I have an interesting photo-copy of an article written by "Curtis" (I forget for sure which one) & stated to have appeared in the Rifleman back in the 40's I believe it was. From his research at that time his conclusion was the Lefever was first made in 1878, prior to its patent, & did precede the Sneider. He stated the Sneider had been credited with being earlier than the Lefever based on its addition in an earlier dated catalog, but examination of the catalog revealed the hammerless gun listing had actually been pasted in over a hammer model. This was not done as fraud, but was done by Sneider at issuance as an update, thus the catalog did not actually reflect the proper date for the hammerless gun.
Sneider did of course build the first Self-Cocking hammerless double in the US. As to which one actually sold the very first hammerless may always remain up for question.

so whats the story on this gun owd? I didnt see any thing on your blog about it. My 12ga hammerless is marked only Sneider, my hammerguns are Clark and Sneider. They are neat guns.

Eightbore,
That took me by surprise as I always thought the Lefever was the first hammerless.

At the NRA Convention in Reno in 1987, the Southern California Arms Collectors Association had in one of their display cabinets a hammerless 4-gauge double with 38-inch barrels and weighing 28 1/2 pounds, said to be made by Charles Edward Sneider ca 1875-6, and displayed at the Centenial Exposition in Philadelphia in 1876.

2-Piper, as usual, you are right, recently on about the Clark and Sneider catalogs and how they reused them. I have copies and originals of the 1878 catalog and it shows only hammer guns. Then you see a catalog of that date, but with a hammerless gun pasted on it's pages. I wonder if we can assume that catalog is from "late 1878" as I would think if they were adding a hammerless gun, they would also add the latest date. I also have a copy of a Clark and Sneider catalog of 1876, showing , of course , only hammer guns in both Solid Grip ,Top Lever, Self-Closing Guns, and similar Double Grip guns of Self-Closing design.

Likewise, the 1883 catalog shows "Clark and Sneider" on the cover. They offer hammerless guns from 16 ga. to 8 ga. and hammerguns from 20 ga. to 8 ga. I have a hammerless 20 ga that checks in near 5 poounds in weight. Has anyone seen a catalog offering hammerless 20 ga. guns ? I do have old photographs of ads from an unidentified magazine source, maybe Forest and Stream. One is showing "The Sneider" hammerless gun, by Clark and Sneider with a latest Patent mentioned of 1880. The other ad shows "The Sneider Hammerless" offered by C. W. Sneider. The first ad specifically offers the Guns with Hammers in 4-20 gauge. No mention of Hammerless gauges. The second ad offers the Hammerless in 4-20 ga. , priced $100-$300----princely sums. I have never heard of a Sneider or Clark and Sneider 4 bore double and have seen only one 20 ga. Sneider or Clark and Sneider.

Sort of like the altered 1878 catalog, we also see the 1883 catalog altered with "Clark &" neatly crossed out on the cover, but still dated 1883. I would "assume" the partnership dissolved in that year.

I've seen the above mentioned 4-gauge double and have seen and handled Dr. McPhail's Sneider 4-gauge single. Would love to see the 4-gauge double and Daryl's 20-gauge laid side by side.

Researcher: No longer my 4 Ga -had to sell- kids in school.
Do you remember Serial # of Hammerless 4 double? Seems odd
that this gun was at 1876 Centenial and mechanism was patented
in 1880??
First Hammerless seial # I know of is "400" Last "718" Anyone
with more data. Hammer and Hammerless # seem to be intertwined,
High percentage of big bore guns.
Clark left 1884, would assume Sneider marked only on guns after
that.No direst data but fron experience think about mid 500#
had only SNEIDER.
Have two Sneider pinfires 1865-1868-neatest guns I H
have-apair 12 and 10 ga.
Sure would like a copy 0f the 1883 Catalogue! Does it describe
each "Dollar" Grade?
Sure is a Nice Guns
Bill McPhail

I don't know the serial number, it was in a glass case. The information they had printed on their handout about it being at Philadelphia could be wrong as well. I don't have any other indication of a hammerless Sneider that early.

Has anyone seen a Sneider or Clark and Sneider double rifle. They list them, but I have never heard of one.

I also own..hammerless 10....pics posted on another thread. Jeff

Wow!
Curious design, would like to know more about it Thanks for sharing

Great site! Cans are just now setting up for nesting here and I've been urging friends to shoot every raccoon they see so maybe we can see a few canvasback broods this year. Nesting conditions could not be much better, with nice bands of open water surrounding the emergent vegetation on most wetlands.

Bill

Adding a bit of support to your "mid 500#" statement--I have a Sneider (no Clark) 10 ga hammerless (slightly lower grade than OWD's 16ga) with serial number 572.

Best wishes for Easter to the McPhail's

Berrien

Berrien
Good to here from you. Please send your snail mail adrress and I will send you some info I an sure you will like.
Bill
mcphailcherokee@aol.com