Can a duplicate stock be made from an original without damaging the original? I would like to have duplicated, a Parker Reproduction stock from the original (adding 1/2" LOP), but I don't want the original scratched or damaged. Who do you recommend to duplicate a stock, and any favorite places to buy a blank? Thanks!
Joe

Joe, I'll do the best I can to help you with your questions.

It's entirely possible to have a stock duplicated without damaging the original. I sent a stock to be duplicated to John Vest in Oregon a while back and mentioned to John that the original stock and forend were new and I would like to have them back with as little damage as possible. The original wood was sent back covered VERY neatly with blue painters tape. When I removed the tape the finish was as perfect as when I sent it. The duplicated stock was ! I can also recommend Gene Simillion in Colorado or Shane Thompson in Montana. Both of these men do great duplicating but I would cover the original stock myself because time is money to both men. John just did this a favor to me this one time. There are others that also do great work but these three come to mind first. You can find their contact information on the ACGG website http://www.acgg.org/ under "Current listing of Regular Members".

I hesitate to recommend wood supliers but a few come to mind, Ray & Cathy Richter (Quaking Aspens), Cecil Fredi, Steve Heilmann, Luxus (Turkish walnut). There are a lot of wood suppliers out there, some are good!

With all due respect to my friend Doug, It would probably be better if you realized there is some chance of damaging a pattern stock regardless of tape covering. All stocks must be jigged fore and aft to accommodate mounting in the machine. With a shotgun stock the "head" of the stock must be bridged with the mounting device which is normally epoxied to the front (and maybe rear) of the stock. Attaching or removing this may cause damage.
None of the stock duplicators that I have worked with will guarantee no damage when machining from an existing stock.
Best,
Steve

Steve is, of course, correct. In my case I got very lucky. The bridges and rear hold'ems do have a chance of causing problems.

In my case I'm usually using what I fondly refer to as "mules" so minor scratches aren't etc. really a concern. I wouldn't notice a scratch in the Bondo or epoxy anyway.

The new stock machines work by laser and are computer controlled. I saw one on a disk advertised at my buddys shop, used a laser to copy the old stock and then duplicated it on the blank. It only did one stock at a time but it didn't take long. Ill have to see if he still has the address of the maker. Rich

I can attest to John Vest doing great work. I only used scrapers and files to fit from his machining. Very, very little wood removal was needed to fit.

Chuck, was the original scratched or damaged in any way? It is a new stock so I definitely don't want it marked on.

while we are on the subject a friend dropped a stunning piece of walnut at my house yesterday with a plea for me to find someone to cut it into a Lefever H grade stock. He has a two barrel set, case, forend, and receiver, but no wood. Can ya'll point me to somebody who has a pattern and can cut it for me?

I also need somebody who can make me a semi inletted mannlicher stock for a Savage 93 .17 HMR. I have a nice 44" piece of quilted maple for the project.

I would like to see info about the laser gizmo-carver as well.
Wonder how a guy would amortize the purchase of a machine like that?

Steven,
Technology is getting scary....and coming down in price.
https://www.nextengine.com/indexSecure.htm

I do not think these are capable of scanning such a large object, but you get the idea. At those prices you would not need to sell many scanned items top recoup cost. It gets a guy thinking for sure. The scanner then is converted to G-code for machining purposes.

In my shop I have a single spindle duplicator and I like it very much. Does wonders for building a collection of patterns.

There are 2 3D printers outside my office right now,...and coupled with a scanner they are a mind boggling piece of equipment but only if you want a plastic or composite stock,...unfortunately ( or fortunately) we like to have our stocks made out of nice wood, and that would require a pretty sophisticated 3 axis cnc with tool changer, and even that would not come close to replicating the subtleties required to feel your way through the cut on a 3K piece of walnut as a good hand guided duplicator can.

Joe Cole of Cole's gunsmithing was doing something similar,...I was told by the lady there he is back to doing it by hand, took too long the other way she said

Best

CJ

Since we've drifted a bit from Joe's original question to more of a "how dey do dat?" thread, I thought I'd post these pics from CSM again.

This first one is what I beleive is their hydraulically powered tracer mill (powered pantograph equiv) for one stock at a time. This machine is similar technology to TrueTrace and HydroTel mills I've used more than 3 decades ago. You can see the pattern and the stylus in the front position. The rear position is where the product would be. This type of machine appears to be a 4 axis; 1) left/right, 2) in/out, 3) up/down, 4) rotate pattern and product. The toolholder and cutting tool is not in the spindle in this pic.



The pictures below are of a 10 spindle machine that is CNC or DNC controlled. I beleive this machine was also 4 axis and was machining 20g RBL stocks at the time. Note that not all spindles are being used.



Just looking at the inletting/frame to stock shapes, you can tell the RBL was designed to be machine inletted from the start.

my single spindle machine....it has since been further modified to do rough cutting automatically with just the last .100" or so on the outside and all the inletting done done by running the machine by hand.

anybody have any experience with brian at this place?
great american gunstocks.
http://www.gunstocks.com

Karl lippard / Joseph Brazier

http://www.josephbrazier.com/firearm-wood.php

Not so bad if they already have a pattern done, if they don't then mega money for engineering / drawing and code for your duplicate.

If you have a lot of "EXTRA" money lying around!!!!

I have seen a couple of examples in person and they are very nice,but not real cost effective for one off's unless you break stocks on a regular basis.

H&H

Customer reports have been mixed over the years. I suggest you Google the phrase "Great American Gunstock" (with quotes) and make your own determination.

Best regards,
Peconga in Boise, Idaho

Steve have you made a pattern for the 97wr we built? i am going to start on a blank unless you have a pattern made up.mc

Mark,
I have 2 high condition original guns in the shop....too high of condition to put in the duplicator unfortunately. Maybe we can work out a deal. I can make the pattern to original specs and duplicate it. I have a trade in mind if your up for it.
Steve

Steve lets talk in a few months im kinda busy now but i am going to finish that damn thing this year. mc

Sounds good. I just picked out a new puppy so don't wait until it is bird season, I may be hard to find around then.

American Gunstocks seems to have a heavily itemized price list. Having never had a stock duplicated, it's not at all clear to me what the final cost ends up being.

For those who have done this before, what are the "all in" costs? American Gunstocks lists a Grade 3 English walnut stock/foreend for $255 as near as I can tell. But that's "partially inletted", not checkered, not finished. What of this extra work do you guys do yourselves? What has to be sent out to a pro?

Sorry if this question is crass, I'm just trying to figure out what's actually involved in this process.

Calebg

First of all, I have ordered stocks (more than one) from Great American Gunstocks,and, I will never order another. Issues were too numerous...but bottom line is that the inletting looked like it was done by a Chipmunk on crack.

There are quit a few good/decent stock duplicators and suppliers.

As to what we do and what we farm out, think most guys will tell you to do what you are capable of doing, and farm out the rest.

So if you're good at fitting a stock, but lack the skills to checker and finsih, do the fitting and send the checkering and finishing out to someone who is proficient

V/R

Mike

Hi:

I have had work done by this outfit and it is my opinion that there are other places that are much better!!


Leomat

I have some high grade American black walnut shotgun stocks. The wood was cut before 1917 and stored ever since. They are truly one of a kind. The trees were likely over a hundred years old when cut in 1917. If you are interested e-mail be at bdshipp@msn.com.

I can only agree, find another place to do business with.

Pete

As far as I can see, the less damaging way to duplicate stock or whatever else is to use a 3d scanner, Artec Spider for example (tried myself) and than work with a scan not with original object.

That's very interesting Kosoglot. But the technology is still pretty pricey for the average gunsmith. I can see where it might easily amortize itself for a large scale gunstock duplicating company though. And doing things like changing drop or adding higher combs, length of pull, etc. would be programmed rather than done by altering a pattern stock. Do you know how this system is integrated with a duplicator? I'd assume it is intended for CNC duplicators.

And welcome on your first post here.

Avoid Wenig like the plague.

I second that....