Leighton,
I've seen several BLE and BLNE from Fred Williams. They all seemed to be the made to the typical Brummy standard, which of course isnt a bad thing at all. I can't recall seeing a "high" grade gun by this maker. I almost bought a heavy BLNE from Thad Scott, it was a medium grade gun (based on engraving) but it had pitted barrels so I sent it back. Your hammergun looks like a nice waterfowling piece. I really like the buttplate, kinda tells you exactly what you need to be using that old gun for.
Use it in good health.
Dustin
I found 2. There may be more.
1
Established in 1873 at 47 1/2 Whittall Street, he moved in about 1877 to 34 Bath Street. In the early 1880s the address was 33-34 Bath Street, and in about 1886 it was 34 Bath Street only. The firm appears to have closed in about 1886.
2
Frederick William Williams established his business in 1881 at 49-50 Weaman Street, Birmingham. Between 1886 and 1890 he moved to 32-33 Weaman Street, which became known as the Birmingham Gun Works.
Between about 1913 and 1917 the name of the firm changed to Frederick Williams, and in about 1937 to Frederick Williams (Gunmakers) Ltd. Prior to adopting limited liability, the firm claimed a London address, possibly Frederick Williams of 3 Broad Street Station, Liverpool Street.
The firm closed in 1947.
Pete
This is probably the Number 1 reference. It appears to have been made in the early 80's.It has one locking lug instead of two and
cylinder bore may denote early also. Thanks for the info.
Over the years I have owned several guns engraved, Fredrick Williams, they were as follows:
#5552 a 12 G boxlock,Engraved on the rib, Fredr,k Williams, Weaman Street, Birmingham.Both barrels cylinder.
#115919 a 12g Bar action Hammer,with Greener cross bolt. Cylinder and f/choke barrels.[Made after 1887]. Engraved on the rib; Fredrick Williams London and Birmingham, England.
#114153 a 12G ,B.L.N.E. Steel barrels by B.S.A.Profuse Engraving. Regret address not recorded.
The booklet"The gun trade of Birmingham"'published by the Birmingham City Museum, page 21 shows the,"F.Williams Gun Works,Weaman Street,printed from an old advertisement block.The picture depicts;A three storey factory with"F.Williams",in a mantel over the front entrance and on a plaque at the the building roof line ,"American Gun and Cycle Works".This building was still standing in Weaman Street in the 1960,s.[Adjacent to Webley and Scott]
The gun illustrated in this post is typical of the F.Williams guns that I have seen.Clearly Mr Williams was proud to announce that he was using the latest machinery to make guns and cycles; likely with the objective of reducing cost. This combination suggests that the date of this illustration was circa 1895.[ie; Fred Greener was in the cycle business at this time].
Looks like more common twist barrels ?
There was a group hosting a Fred Williams Appreciators shoot advertised on this site not too long ago:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post137549I've come accros several over the years, this one is curently one of my regular shooters.
Frederick Williams was an English maker of premium quality side-by-side shotguns with premises in Birmingham and London from 1884 to 1950. In 2008 a cadre of Frederick Williams aficionados has formed in the interest of studying and preserving these outstanding sporting arms. Some of the uninitiated have referred to this maker as Fred K. Williams. This is a misunderstanding based on the fact that some Williams shotguns are marked Fred'k Williams (note the apostrophe). "Fred'k" was, and is, an accepted abbreviation for Frederick. Mr. William's actual middle initial is reported to have been "W."
Some of the finest guns made by Frederick Williams were marketed under the names of prominent London firms. He was a respected source of guns for the trade. Williams made both boxlock and sidelock shotguns, as well as hammerguns. Every Frederick Williams gun which I have seen was of fine quality. I personally own one of the Williams firm's last shotguns proofed at Birmingham in 1950.
J.K.B. von Falkenhorst
Mark your gun looks a lot like a Thomas wild Austral
Could you post a pic of your Premium gun ?
Nice thread, how do you post a picture? I've got a nice Williams I'll post a picture of if I can figure out how to do it.
Actually mine says only F. Williams and for some reason I thought
it was Fred whicdh doesnt make much sense as an Englishman would likely not call himself Fred. So Frederick is the proper name.
Nice thread, how do you post a picture? I've got a nice Williams I'll post a picture of if I can figure out how to do it.
My shooting student Joe Wood wrote this excellent set of instructions for just that purpose. Just click the link below.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...ge=1#Post148935
Just great. One more make I have to be "on the lookout" for.
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http://www.jpgbox.com/page/8691[/img]
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http://www.jpgbox.com/page/8690[/img]
This is my Fred K Williams Maker Birmingham refinished by Dan Morgan, woodstock, VT
Nice gun Mark, clearly a Birmingham best gun.
My thoughts/speculation on the Williams business are as follows:-
The statement,"American Gun and Cycle Works." seen on the origional building exterior of The F.Williams works, together with the early examples of Williams guns suggests that in the first instance, F.Williams was focused on manufacturing sound,low cost guns,likely with the export market in mind.
In later years it is apparent from guns such as yours, that the range of guns made by Williams guns moved upscale.This may well have resulted from the steep increase in U.S.A. import tarriffs that occured during the late 1800,s[Taft Hartley act]. This act had a negative impact on gun exports from Britain.This factor and/or a change in ownership/management at Williams likely resulted in an expansion of the range guns made in order to appeal to wider range of potential U.K. customers.
