I covet an upland gun this size for its feel and carry, but I'm concerned that a 20 ga. this light will punish me with the recoil. Lets assume the gun fits me very well. I know a lot of Board members have such a double, what is your experience ? Thanks in advance.
Willie the Wimp

Probably not, unless it does. *g*

Serious answer - there are a few other factors involved besides overall weight and even fit of the gun. Does it have a modern recoil pad, or do you expect to be installing one? A good pad will soak up quite a bit of the perceived kick. What kind of loads do you intend to use? If it's a newer gun that can take 3" shells, of course they'll recoil more than a 7/8 oz target load. Do you plan on shooting it a lot at clay targets or just enough clays to become comfortable with it and then reserve it for hunting?

Speaking for myself, the light weight wouldn't concern me at all on a hunting gun.

Well, I'm a wimp, too. Never could see the sense of punishing guns. Won't own one. Aside from the big bears, my .250-3000 Ruger Model 77 and CZ Brno 7X57 (women's guns) will handle anything on the continent and light 20ga doubles with proper loads provide felt recoil acceptable to any wimps.

Since you stated that this is an upland gun, I can't imagine that it would be a problem. There are plenty of simple remidies for any recoil issues you may find. Stop coveting and start expierencing.

Bill G.

I shoot a Parker 20 that weighs six pounds, even. No recoil pad and 3" drop at heel. She's a little nasty with 1 oz loads but not so bad I wouldn't put one in the left barrel. I can shoot clays with her with 7/8 oz loads and it's not unpleasant at all. My other 20 is an Italian o/u that weighs 6 lbs, 4 oz. It has a pad, 2 1/2" drop at heel and overbored barrels. It is noticeably more comfortable to shoot. I am inclined to use it more at lengthy target sessions but still with 7/8 oz of shot.
Bottom line: If you want to shoot 1 oz loads in high volume, get a 16 or a 12. The 20 is fine for the standard load it was made for and the odd 1/8 oz cheat.

My Sterlingworth 20ga weighs a hair under 6 lbs (depending on the accuracy of the digital postage scale at work); has a pad and it's a hunter; I don't notice the recoil at all. Lotta guys here would snear at a 20 that weighed much more than that.

With the exception of maybe two shots touched off at extremely awkward angles at waterfowl, I can't think I can ever recall noticing recoil when out hunting.

I did notice the effects of 500 rounds through a light 20 down in Argentina, but even that was not too bad, and that was a lot of rounds.

As the others have noted, assuming the gun basically fits you, a light upland game is what you want for a day in the field, or even for an occasional round of clays. Your arms will thank you and your shoulder won't notice much for a couple of shots.



Ken

I had a gun nearly exactly the weight (6 1/4 lbs) 20g you described. For shooting targets in volume with factory 7/8 oz loads, it can get uncomfortable if it doesn't have a pad. When shooting hunting volumes 1-2 boxes/day, no problem, even with hot 1 oz Rem Nitro-Pheasant loads without a pad.

Most 20's weigh around that much anyway, no? If you weigh over 150lbs. I wouldn't worry about it.

But if you weigh over 200lbs, it may be more uncomfortable than a guy shooting it that weighs 165lbs.

I would be shooting only 7/8 oz. loads, and my weight is a trim 170 lbs.

Jon R. can you recommend a recoil pad no more than 1/2" thick ?

Thanks for all the positive replies !

Willie

Stick with standard loads(7/8 oz.) @ 1150 or no more than 1200 fps. Raise the velocity and/or payload significantly and your shoulder will pay for it. The birds won't know the difference, though. Go here and see what difference it can make: http://www.zknives.com/bali/brcstgn.shtml
JL

I was shooting Pheasants a week ago with my 1938-vintage Fox A-Grade 20-gauge that weighs exactly six pounds. I was even using some 1 1/8 ounce #6 in the left barrel, not that I'd go out and buy such shells but they were in what I inherited from my Godfather. The gun has a straight stock with high dimensions to the original butt plate and recoil was unnoticed shooting at game. I usually use 3/4 or 7/8 ounce 20-gauge shells for clay targets.

As long as you use standard loads - no magnums, no 3 inchers - a 20ga. that fits you well should be easy shooting. I shoot a 5lb. 14oz. 20ga. SxS, which fits well and gives me no problem with 7/8oz. and 1oz. loads. I normally shoot 7/8oz. loads at skeet and after three or four rounds, have no noticeable recoil problem.

For game I generally use 7/8oz. #8 trap loads for ruffed grouse, and 1oz. of #6s for wild pheasant. I favor the Pachmayr Old English SC pad (brown pad with black heel insert), which both of my SxSs have.

my little Yildiz is 6Ib and is fitted with a Pachmayr Deacelerater pad it is very mild to shoot with 7/8oz loads and not to bad with 1oz I only use 7/8oz in my 20g if I require more shot I step up to my 12g

I also like the Pachmayr Old English pads, but they're thicker than 1/2". Since they ought to be put on by a pro, it would be easy to keep LOP the same after pad installation.

For occasional use you might consider:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/kick_killer_recoil_pad.htm

It's only 1/2" thick. I have a couple of 12-ga guns that didn't come with recoil pads, and use one of these only when shooting skeet (not in the field) and it's pretty effective at taming the kick.

My Winchester Model 101 20 g weighs approximately 5lb 12 oz and it is just dandy.
Not much boot at all.

john

I'm a recoil wuss. My almost 10 lb. tournament gun is even equipped with a JS Air Cushioned stock. My RBL weighs in at exactly 6 lbs. with a .8" Pachmayr Old English Decelerator fitted to the uncut stock. Original LOP was 14¾" and is now 15¼". For clay targets I've whipped up some sweet shooting 11/16oz. 20ga. loads using 15 gr. of Unique, the Remmy GC's or GL hulls, and the current, "new" WAA20 wad.

The comfort level between these and a standard 7/8oz. target load is remarkable. I could easily shoot 200 of these a day without a problem.

I had a Rizzini o/u 20 gauge at exactly 6.25 lbs. I regularly shot shot 1 oz Golden Pheasant #5 in it and never noticed the recoil in a hunting scenario. Recoil from 7/8 oz loads that I shot for quail were negligable.

Pachmayr Decelerators are available in .6", .8" and 1". The .6" pad will not give you much recoil help. I like them on .410s and 28s, just to make them less slippery in a gun rack. I'd recommend .8" at the minimum and 1" is better. If you're going to do it, do it right. Have the but cut to suit you and have a good pad fitted properly. Pads put on a curved butt look like an amateur did the job, IMO.

Hi:

Being a 20 ga. lover, the best that I can say is it depends on pure magic. Some ofthe guns were very mild and some were very wild.

I will rank them in order of increasing percevied recoil:

1. Franchi Al 48, 5lbs 4 oz. Recoil operated auto
2. Beretta 303 6lbs 4 oz. Gas operated auto
3. Franchi Falconet 6.03 lbs O/U
4. Kasner American Arms Ultra Light.5lbs.12 oz.O/U

The weight seems to have little effect on the felt recoil. All of the gns have about the same stock dimensions. None of the guns had recoil pads on them.

For upland hunting use, I do not think that you will be bothered by the recoil. I use heavy field loads in all of my guns when pheasant hunting but use AA Skeet loads for chuckar. The Skeet loads are very pleasant on the shoulder!

I used my Beretta 303 to shoot many rounds of skeet with skeet loads with no pain.

Now a round of skeet with a 4.5 pound 12 ga. will make you think that you have had enough for that day.

You will just have to experiment with various loads until you find a load that will not mistreat you. When field shooting, I never notice the recoil. Face slap, that is another story.

Go for the 20,

Franchi

Gentlemen, Thank you for all for your responses and good information. It's exactly what I needed to hear. My question originated from trying my friend's SKB 20 ga. model 100 with 26" bbls. two weeks ago at some easy clay birds and being real surprised at the unpleasant recoil experience. However, that gun was way too short for me and I wondered how much that effected the experience. I'm looking at an AOC/SG model Ugartechea, but didn't want to buy something that kicked like that little SKB.

If possible, find someone with a gun closer to what you want and one that fits...to try.

I have two 20 ga M21s and a M12 in that weight range. The 21s have checkered butts, and the 12 has the usual plastic plate. I can shoot 100 7/8 oz loads in a session through these, but prefer my 3/4 oz loads. In the field I feed them fast 15/16 oz or 1 oz B&Ps and never notice the recoil.

I do have a 5# ASEL that brings tears to my eyes with 7/8 oz loads, and about knocked me unconscious when I patterned a single 1 oz B&P for kicks (pardon the atrocious pun). A 5 3/4 oz 20 ga Brit BLE "feels best" with 3/4 oz loads at the range. I'm not inclined to run 1 oz fields loads through this one. Same goes for a 6# 12 ga Daly.

I think 6 1/4# (fixed breech gun) is the ideal weight for field use with 1 oz loads, irrespective of gauge.

Sam

No.

My RBL is less than six pounds and after I added a recoil pad it is OK. I have shot skeet and doves with it and have no problems.
bill

My RBL is less than six pounds and after I added a recoil pad it is OK. I have shot skeet and doves with it and have no problems.
bill

London Guns in Santa Barbara had a nice red pad that was about .5-.6" thick and looks right on vintage guns, but last time I checked they were out of production. There seems to be a steady demand, so would be worth checking again.

Jeff's Outfitters carries a 1/2" brown pad that looks nice on just about anything. I had one fitted to an 1885 Parker hammer gun to lengthen the LOP and it's very nice. It is a firm pad.

Jim, gotta disagree with you on this one. Plenty of old guns are too short for current shooters, and I hate to see the butt of a Smith or Parker (with or without the spur) squared up for a modern pad just to lengthen the LOP. If the pad is correctly fitted to the curved butt and the spur mortise is properly filled with black epoxy, the pad looks factory and the stock has not been damaged in any way. The process is completely reversible and the butt plate can be reinstalled later if desired. I have done this to a couple of my older guns, and plan to do it to several more. I'll try to post a couple of pictures this weekend.

The traditional "ideal" shot/weight ratio for English guns is 96/1 - 96 ounces of gun for every 1 ounce of shot, regardless of gauge. For 1 ounce loads, 6 pounds is considered the "ideal" weight.

The lightest 20 i have is a 5 lbs. 4 ounce Fox and i shoot 3/4 ounce Vintager loads in it with no recoil problems! Brownells sells the London Guns recoil pads. Bobby

Bobby, the last time I checked Brownell's for the London Guns pads, they only had the thick ones.

6lb 3oz Parker with original type pad handles 1oz loads without discomfort. 5lb 9oz 16ga Sempert-Kreighoff and horn butt plate handles 7/8oz loads without discomfort but the 1oz loads get painful quickly. 6lb 2oz 20ga B.Rizzini with checkered butt is fine all day with 7/8oz target loads on sporting clays. So it depends on what weight load and velocity you choose. I hand load 3/4oz 20ga loads with 7 shot for desert quail and find they are indistinguishable from 7/8oz loads as far as taking game.

T-Stick, Mine a LC/20, pre-13, 6/lbs., Shoots mild pressure [7,000] handloads, and Win, Australian made Super X, 7/8 oz, and all a pleasure to shoot at clay games or birds. Randy

T-Stick -- My AyA 4/53 20 is 5 lbs 10 oz. Simple checkered butt. I use 1200 fps 7/8 oz loads or thereabout on wild birds, and I sometimes go to two and a half dram equiv 1 oz. loads. There is no pain in the field. I'm not a big guy.

On the skeet field I shoot std. factory and handloaded relatively hi-pressure 7/8 oz skeet loads (1200 fps 7/8 oz). After a while the gun can punish you, but it isn't bad. I won the 20 ga. skeet champ with it at the Vintager's event in Northbrook IL in 2005. If you shoot 4 or 5 boxes you'll be fine. Taking a break in the middle of your shooting makes it even better. I've put in a 250 round day with it at skeet, and it does tire me out more than my skeet gun. But I won't do that a lot, and there's no great reason to. Are you really going to shoot 10 boxes of skeet or sporties with it every day? It's a field gun. Get the gun fit right and mount it right and it'll never bother you. If you simply must shoot it all day at the gun club, put a KickEez pad on it.

Think about those guys with the 6 to 6.5 pound 12's shooting American 1.125 oz shells! That's much worse. Go through the recoil math -- that 12 gauge example at 6.5 pounds shooting 1.125 oz. kicks like a 5 pound 20 with 7/8 oz! Try a nice 1.375 oz 1295 fps load in that 6.5 pound 12 -- good for going through back-bones of long going-away pheasants -- Hooo Boy!!! Make sure you hold on to the gun. You can feel everything flex -- in you as well as the gun! Now doing that all day is nonsense. You can get away with it a half dozen times in a day, or maybe in your life. Going to the "standard hi-velocity load" in the 12 (1.25 oz and 1330 fps), which a lot of people do all day is only 4 percent less recoil than that wicked 1.375 oz load!

The 20? No sweat.

Have Fun,
Tony Lowe

Part of the equation is how much shooting will you be doing with what size loads? Lighter loads for the sporting clays and if you need heavier for upland should work fine considering you probably won't be shooting near as many rounds when actually in the field. Also, good pad = No problem.

I regularly shoot two 16's that weigh 5-11 and a 12 that weighs
6-1 using 1 oz. and 1-1/8 oz., respectively, on doves, quail,
and pheasants. These are factory game/target loads and as long
as I make a good mount and stay focused on the bird, I never
feel the recoil and my shoulder is never sore at the end of the
day. Good shooting. John