Was the Iver Johnson Supertrap a knockoff of the Winchester 21 Trap? (Credit the gorgeous 21 to Galazan)
Did any manufacturer make a gun to look like a 21?
The forends are just a tad different. Why, I don't know, because the 12 gauge IJ Skeeter has a very nice looking forend. I don't know why they put this monstrousity on the Super Trap.
Them's fighting words.
Just because the forearm looks like the spawn of a perverse mating between a cricket bat and a pizza shovel you have no right to insult it!
Lou
Hello All
A gun that is similar in looks to the Win 21 is the AYA J.C. Higgins 100.
Y'all seen these?
Mike
I like that Iver Johnson you have Lou. Looks great!!
Does it look like a M21..........NO.
The Winchester is of course a Winchester and that name alone stamped on top of any barrel commands big money!!!
Not without reason though a good world military history book will suffice to find out why!!!
The IJ was a lot more gun dollar for dollar but having owned both the 21 will last longer both are butt ugly
bill
Who was a knock-off of who?!? I don't know when it was actually introduced, but the Iver Johnson Super-Trap was in their 1931 catalogue. Schwing says the Model 21 was introduced in 1930, but the company went into receivership almost immediately and by December 1931 was bought by Olin. All the early Model 21 paper he shows is dated 1931 or 32. The Trap Grade Model 21 was introduced in 1932 and the Tournament Grade in 1933.
The first known Winchester factory price list with the Model 21 included was dated October 15, 1930. The first magazine ads for the Model 21 were the issues of September, 1930. Trap and Tournament Grades were listed in the factory price list of June 21, 1932 and the even earlier Form 1184, an illustrated folder. The June 21, 1932 price list mentions that information in that price list supercedes the #1184 folder. The folder was probably from 1931 or very early 1932. Vent ribs were available in the #1184 folder also. Vent ribs came a lot earlier than some think.
Who was a knock-off of who?!? I don't know when it was actually introduced, but the Iver Johnson Super-Trap was in their 1931 catalogue. Schwing says the Model 21 was introduced in 1930, but the company went into receivership almost immediately and by December 1931 was bought by Olin. All the early Model 21 paper he shows is dated 1931 or 32. The Trap Grade Model 21 was introduced in 1932 and the Tournament Grade in 1933.
Someone has a documented report of a Supertrap sale in 1925
Lou
When Winchester test fired several guns with their test loads, the Iver Johnson only lasted six rounds before it blew apart. I'm thinking this could be the same gun. But seriously, Bushmaster is right. This gun would look so much better with a with a splinter forearm. One that would go nice with those pretty, girlish roses in the background so that all of the women could shoot and admire.
When Winchester test fired several guns with their test loads, the Iver Johnson only lasted six rounds before it blew apart. I'm thinking this could be the same gun. But seriously, Bushmaster is right. This gun would look so much better with a with a splinter forearm. One that would go nice with those pretty, girlish roses in the background so that all of the women could shoot and admire.
Jimmy:
What is your source that the Iver blew up?
Also, I shouldered several Winchester Traps at Greenwich this morning. They seemed to weigh less than my Iver.
He most surely does- after all, I caught some flack because I commented on a 16 FW Smith with 26" barrels--strange to me that I would bet serious cash money that most guys who post and read posts here believe in the Second Amendment, but seem to conveniently forget the First=
It is true, I found the details in a Schwing article (not in his great M21 book however)- the IJ went "South" after 6 blue pill loads, an Ithaca NID lasted for 44, and a Limey made Purdey made it to 60- The M21 went over 2000 w/o a hick-up--then they stripped it down and checked all the parts against original gauge specs for wear, breakage, stress cracks--
Winchester's have always been "Hell for Stout" The over-rated Browning derived 1897 (not his first the 1893) was so strong that Parker O. Ackley once rebarreled a 12 gauge M97 into a 30-06--and it shot like a house afire-
Why is the M21 so pricey on todays shotgun market-compared with Ithaca and Smith, possibly Fox and Parker= You tell me--
What is a blue pill load
Was the iver that was tested a Supertrap?
Proof loads Lou.
I believe all of the other doubles tested failed some makes going at best 200 to 300 rounds. The M21 digested 2,000 rounds without failure.
Hey, Lou, what were the prices of the Model 21 Traps at Greenwich? Not too long ago, I sold my vent rib 30" Trap Grade to a friend for $4500. Not long after that, nice vent rib Trap Grades were selling for $8000 and up. Oh, well. I doubt that the Super Trap was John Olin's test gun, more likely a Hercules. Not much difference except weight.
Hey, Lou, what were the prices of the Model 21 Traps at Greenwich? Not too long ago, I sold my vent rib 30" Trap Grade to a friend for $4500. Not long after that, nice vent rib Trap Grades were selling for $8000 and up. Oh, well. I doubt that the Super Trap was John Olin's test gun, more likely a Hercules. Not much difference except weight.
Very handsome unengraved 21 traps were tagged at $7,500 ,d up