I picked up a Robust doubel barrel shotgun. Some time ago for a future double rifle project. And the more I look at it I admire the craftmanship.As every thing fits so well. Like a GOOD swiss watck. ANd very little info on the internet.?? any info would be appericated.Whitey Email whanson@plainstel.com
About the time France abandoned Algeria a large number of used 16 GUAGE (see, I'm catchin' on; didn't even THINK the "B-word"!) Robusts were sold on the US market by retailers that usually specialized in milsurps.
Anybody know about any connection between these events? I had one; they weren't specialized military "riot guns," just plain 27" field grade guns with sling swivels. Good value for the money; great rainy day gun.
Thanks Mike. Do you know if they was engraved etc. With silver plated receivers.? Was that their field grade.? As IMO They was very well made.But I know very little about double barrel shotguns. Whitey
Mike, the connection between an influx of used Robusts and Algerian independence . . . I'd have to say that's one I've never heard. What's your source on that?
Whitey, I haven't reviewed the threads Drew posted. However, the Robust was undoubtedly France's most popular sxs shotgun. I've seen a figure of close to a million of them produced--by Manufrance, which is short for French Arms & Cycle Factory, St. Etienne. Most of the ones you see will be from the pre-WWII period, although some were imported much later than that. The older ones, in particular, are very likely to have "stepped" barrels, where they fit into the monobloc breech, rather than the usual taper. They were made in several different grades, from very plain--no engraving, just a case-colored receiver--to quite fancy with a lot of engraving. Some of them had retracting slings that disappear into the stock. Virtually all of them have sling swivels, whether they have the retractable sling or not.
Good, solid guns, somewhat heavier than some other French sxs. "Robust" was a good name choice. Fits very well.
Here is Whitey's Robust
Parts List
From the 1890 catalog
Manufrance factory circa 1900-1920
Manufrance catalogs on line. Scroll down to near the bottom.
http://www.bm-st-etienne.fr/simclient/in...EVUE_FOREZIENNEPete
Whitey, the one's I'm referring to were very plain blued/cased guns with no engraving and very coarse checkering, about like a Nitro Special. The one I had had no markings indicating police or paramilitary use, just lots of use....
Mr. Brown, my "source" is my memory of the ads in old gun mags from that time; I bought the Robust 16 from such an ad. My books and files are under a ton of crap right now while the office gets remodelled. When the work is done, I'll try to find the ad or the reciept for the 16; I may have kept it although the gun went for cash in one of our
periodic "recessions"....can't remember which one. Seems like I've lived thru about 5! They sure don't help the gun "accumulation" (wouldn't dignify it as a "collection"). I may well still have the original magazine. I remember asking the dealer where the guns came from, and the guy manning the phone told me "North Africa." Since I was buying the gun anyway, I "bought the story" along with it....
Thanks guy's Mine is a earlier model. That I had got for a Double Rifle project in the future. And the more I looked at it. The more I want to make sure I was not using something that could be important.As it is very well made and super tight for it's age.The silver just needs cleaning and polishing. And it seems as I don't have to feel guilty for the purpose I got it for.Thanks again. Whitey
Hello
Please review this posting
http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8646Enjoy the day
Mike
There are a lot of things one can and should do with a Robust, but, converting it to a double rifle isn't one of them.
Why do people insist on believing any double shotgun can be converted to a double rifle with success?
Best,
Ted
Ted thanks for your input.And to partially answer your question due to the limited information I have received. I understand some of these same actions was used for double rifles.??? And I do not believe all double shot guns are suitable for conversion.That is one of the reasons I am asking for information.Rather than just doing it.Plus the fact if it had the history is important enough not to. I would not. BUT if you or anyone else has a problem with me converting this gun due to ???. And have one that they feel would be a better one to convert.And as I am planning on light cal.The smaller the gage the better. Talk to me maybe we will trade. my email is whanson@plainstel.com. Whitey
Whitey,
Get a copy of this book before you begin:
BUILDING DOUBLE RIFLES ON SHOTGUN ACTIONS.
by Brown, W. Ellis.
Publisher Information:
Bunduki Publishing Ft. Collins, CO 2001
You may also be interested in this conversion story:
http://www.hotkey.net.au/~orrs/GreenerStory.htmAs some one who just went through this. I will give you some advice. Figure out all the costs in advance. Consider that most conversions have no provision for adjusting the poi. So you will be spending some time, perhaps alot, at the bench. Take a look at some of the guns that are currently on the market, eg, Pedersoli, FinnClassic, Chapuis to name a few. If your conversion comes anywhere near the cost of a new double rifle, then forget the conversion.
Pete
Thanks Pete I do understand what you are saying. I do have the book. And please understand I have mills (several including cnc) I have 3 lathes I have a surface grinder,And a sharper etc,etc,And that I love guns (mainely rifles) and at 73 years old. I want something to kill time. Smile and keep my mind thinking.Before it gets completely senile.And I just might build a 22LR double gun. If for no other reason. Everything else I see are to hunt elephants etc, and after 22 years in the military I have seen all the blood I ever want to see.So it is nothing to do with hunting. But just for fun and to see if I can do it.At this point the only thing I was concerned with was using something That could be important to someone. Thanks again. Whitey
Whitey, someone else may be able to confirm that there were double rifles made on the Robust action. Entirely possible I suppose, although I'd guess they'd likely be the less potent European calibers rather than something for large and dangerous game somewhere like Africa. (Sounds like that would work OK for you.) And what you may also have heard is that some Robusts have one rifled barrel. That part is certainly true, but in most (all?) cases, the rifling is not for a rifle bullet or slug, but rather to disperse the shot charge--a pattern wider than cylinder, favored by many European woodcock hunters.
Not Robust, but Manufrance Ideal...
I can't see the text here to tell if the barrels are rifled or not.
Pete
L.Brown Thanks for the information. Yes I am sure they would not build these into big game rifles.My concern when I decided to do this project. Was to find a action that was not already messed up and had some workmanship in it. And this gun has that.If someone had not shot steel shot in it and messed up the bores some. It would be a excellent shotgun. Then when I could not find much information on it. I figured I would try and find out if I was going to use something. That would be more appreciated bu a restorer or.???. Whitey
Pete,
I can't see the text either but feel that Fusil Colonial "Plomb & Balle" might have employed some kind of Paradox rifling.
With kind regards,
Jani
Whitey,
you've received lots of info on the Robust guns. I believe that you are actually concerned over the historical/monetary value. To answer your question bluntly, do what you want, make it into whatever you wish. The gun would bring much less than $1K in the States. I hope that I have not offended you.
Hello Whitey,
Does one of the barrels have rifling?
Send pictures please, if you know how.
If not, let us know and we will post them for you
Thanks
Mike
Mike there is some pictures posted earlier by Peter M that is my gun.Not cleaned up or polished etc. I do have a couple others. If you want them email me at. whanson@plainstel.com and will be glad to send them. Whitey
Interesting that in Pete's catalog copy, they specify not to use T powder with slugs.
Larry,
I had not noticed that before. I know for a time T was considered a more powerful powder. It was used in Belgium for a short time for Nitro proof because it could consistently produce higher pressures.
Pete
Sorry I am late getting back.
R.R No offense at all and Was not worried about montary value As I paid MUCH less than. 1K. I had never heard the name befor but outside of the bore it looked like a quality product at one time and a excellent doner for a possible project.
Skeettx.Rifling ??? for about the first 6 inches looks bad. If the rifling was real light it could be loaded with lead or.?? And being honest I did not care. But in front of that area things look great. Whitey
Mike Armstrong: I also remember the advertisements for those relatively inexpensive French SxS 16GA shotguns. IIRC they were in the Shooting Times magazine around the mid 1960s.
Pete, so there is no confusion, only the ones on the right hand pages of the catalogue you posted are Idéals.
JC
Thanks, Ian. I used to read "Shooting Times" a lot; then switched to Rifle/Handloader, and some specialty ones like "Small Bore News" or some such title.
Hello Mike,
Just finished reading Martin Godio's article on Idéals (DGJ Winter 2006) and in passing he mentions Manufrance Robusts and says: "This shotgun was advertised in American magazines in the sixties" (page 126).
JC
I think they were available in the States into the late 70's or early 80's, at least. Don Zutz mentions them in his "The Double Shotgun" as being current imports, and it dates from that period.