Thought I'd share some pictures of a friend's rather nice Robust BLE I am refinishing the stock of:
As you can see, the right barrel is rifled (Raye).
It also has assisted opening and retractable sling.
JC
That's the nicest one I've ever seen. Some have been pretty crude.
Best,
Ted
Agree, that is an extemely nice Robust, all the "bells and whistles" on this one, even ejectors. Very cool.
This is why I thought it would be interesting to show it.
The few Robusts I had seen up to now were very, very plain.
JC
Nice "bold" engraving, too!
Very nice high grade gun, the Robust's are underappreciated quality guns in this Country.
Very nice high grade gun, the Robust's are underappreciated quality guns in this Country.
That one has the typical "stepped" barrels, where they meet the monoblock, that you see on many Robusts. I've owned several, a couple with a fair amount of engraving, but that's certainly at the upper end.
For those that don't know, the rifled barrel is not for slugs. It's a "dispersion" barrel popular with European woodcock hunters.
About the only knock on Robusts is that, compared to some other French and Euro doubles, they are a bit on the heavy side. Not real fenceposts by any stretch, but just a little . . . well, robust.
Hello Larry,
This one, with 27.5" barrels weighs in at 7lbs 1.2oz which is not unduly "robust"
for a 12 bore I would think. It does allow for 1 1/8 ounce loads to be shot
comfortably.
JC
Larry,
Accepting that the right rifled barrel was designed for pellet dispersion; in your opinion, what would keep this Robust from not firing slugs?
EJ and Larry, in this case the rifling is not the shallow type used for dispersion but
very defined and with the grooves having straight sides. I would say it is there for
slugs.
JC
I'm sure you could fire slugs even through the "dispersion" barrels, although that's not the purpose for which they were designed.
JayCee, you could be right. I'd have to see one with a "dispersion" barrel side by side to compare. I owned a Fabarm with one of those, but I don't remember the rifling well enough to make a firm conclusion.
I never saw such rifling for spreading pellets. Guess its for slugs, light ones.
Nice Robust, JC.
JayCee,
Nice gun. Have you been able to date this one?
Pete
A basic thought reference your Robust. Most German and Belguim gun that are not designed for slugs will so indicate on the barrels. Does your gun have " nicht fur kugel" anywhere on the barrels? If it does it clears means not for slugs. I would also want to see how the "dispersion" barrel is choked. If it is really tight ....aproximating full choke....I would not shoot slugs through that barrel.
Hello Tom,
As you point out when not for slugs, French guns, such as this one, will be marked
"Non Pour la Balle". This one is marked "Raye" or rifled.
Also to bear in mind, normally guns with dispersion rifling are used for becasse and
are very light guns such as the Baby Bretons, for a lot of walking and very little
shooting. Not in this case. JMTC.
JC
The French expression "canon raye" [rifled barrel] IS associated with shot dispersion rather than slug stabilization.
jack
Hello Lapin,
Generally I would think the same, but the rifling on this one is rather deep and the
groves have sharp edges.
I used to have a VS two barrel set and one of the barrels was a lot shorter, the right
had very shallow rifling (no edges to it whatsoever) and the left was bored cylinder.
I am basing my assumption on that knowledge, so it may be biased.
JC
Your right JC, deep groves with sharp edges are not for bird shot. After first round all grooves will be full of lead. Bird shot rifling is shallow and usually pretty frequent.
Raye is the only mark I know to indicate rifling on French guns.
JayCee,
Did you measure it for choke?
Best,
Ted
Hello Ted,
Haven't got any useable instrument, but as a reference, a loaded 20 bore shell fits in
the rifled barrel's muzzle with almost a 1mm to spare on one side, whereas it is not
even close to fitting into the left barrel that is marked full choke. Hope this gives
you an idea.
Bottom line, I would think no choke whatsoever on the "Raye" side.
JC
P.S.:
Hi,
Just a little late but I think this will be intereting.
"Raye" barrel was for ball,at least they have a ball (breneke like) for raye barrel:
Martin
I have a 1999 Verney-Carron catalog, in which they describe their "Grand Becassier" model (probably best translated as "Woodcock Special" in English). Here's how they describe the bottom barrel (it's an OU):
"Tube inferieur raye dispersant". In this case, the "dispersant" makes the purpose of the barrel very clear--even if it weren't on a "Woodcock Special".
I have the impression that rifling was for both purposes.
Short range shot and /or balls.
JMHO
Martin
Hi Beleg,
Good of you to bring the thread back, as I have just borrowed the book "LE FUSIL ROBUST" by Jean-Claude MOURNETAS, that has interesting information.
-PeteM, the gun in question was made either in 1930 or 1931 which were the years the 36 model was made. The E is for ejectors and the S is for "Supra" rifled barrel.
As of 1923 Manufrance added the "S" to all its model numbers for guns with rifled barrels, i.e. Robusts, Idéals and even the single barreled Simplex.
-Larry, Geno and Beleg, the Supra barrels were in fact -as Beleg points out- dual purpose: for dispersion AND slugs. As soon as I have a little time I'll post some pictures that clarify this.
All for now.
Warmest Season's Greetings!
JC
Hi JC!!!
I sent you a PM.
Martin
Beleg, no PM has arrived. I have a dedicated email on my profile just in case.
Best,
JC
Robusts were typically . . . well, relatively "robust", in terms of weight--although certainly decent handling guns. I expect a slug through one would work fine. It probably would through something like the V-C "Woodcock Special" rifled barrel too, but in the case of a gun that's built very light, specifically for woodcock hunting, I'd think the recoil might be a bit excessive.
Not all French woodcock guns with "raye" have a Supra type of rifling.