I have a Wm. Cashmore that has a couple of inches of the rib at the breech that pops up after firing. Has anyone worked with the low temp solder with something like this? Any other suggestions for a cure?
I bought a 20 ga. Browning Superposed with the rib disconnected about half was from the breach. I intended to send it to Art's for repair but I decided to try JB Weld first. That was about six months ago and the JB is holding. When it pops off, if it does, then I'll send it to Art's. In another case, the forend hanger broke of a 20 ga. Parker. I glued it back with JB Weld and stayed that way for about two years, including a dove shoot in Mexico. I recently had all the metal restored on tha gun and the hanger was properly soldered in the process but the JB Weld never failed. I'm not suggesting that gluing fine guns back together is the proper fix but it can be a servicable temporary fix.
Just my 2 cents, but I'd either: a)do it yourself if you have good skills and can confidently follow my and Dewey's tutorial on Revdocdrew's website, or b) send it off to get it repaired properly by removing the ribs and re-laying them.
If you put any type of adhesive on it, when the time comes to strip the ribs and re-lay them, the 'smith will be unhappy and likely charge a bit more for the cleanup depending on how bad a mess it made.
Chuck,
WHAT AREA ON DREWS WEBSITE IS YOUR TUTORIAL/?
Thanks Joe, you are a valuable contributor to this maze of confusion and information.
Stallones, there are lots of guys who can reattach the rib piece without having to relay all of the rib and reblueing the barrels. If you want to refinish the barrels, then there are more gunsmiths who can redo the ribs.
Russ used to say he put the barrels in his blueing tanks so the heat would not affect other areas. Sound like a good way to do a small area.
bill
Often a short section of rib can be resoldered without completely relaying the rib and reblacking.....if the rib can be pried up a bit and the mating surfaces can be scraped clean, English solder can be used to resolder the area...Brownells sells this - made by Swif...it is a paste and is applied to the mating surfaces.... they are then tied tightly with wire....the excess solder is wiped off and the area heated until the solder flows....clean up of the newly soldered joint can be done with a wire wheel, without damage to the bluing....if a bit of touch up is necessary to the joint, OxphoBlue paste can be applied while the joint is still hot from the soldering and wire wheel cleaning.....I should warn you that if an attempt to hold the rib down with epoxy has been made, this job will be extremely difficult without removing the rib - DON'T DO IT!
A gunsmith friend fixed one like you have. He first used JB Weld and then very carefully where the front bead went drilled through to the bottom rib. He tapped the hole and installed a long machine screw and turned the head to look like a front bead. Bingo - the top and bottom rib are screwed togeather- can't come loose. Just an idea - Paul
Bubble Gum works pretty good.
I gotta get me some!,...was it Bazooka jOe??
CJ
A gunsmith friend fixed one like you have. He first used JB Weld and then very carefully where the front bead went drilled through to the bottom rib. He tapped the hole and installed a long machine screw and turned the head to look like a front bead. Bingo - the top and bottom rib are screwed togeather- can't come loose. Just an idea - Paul
Just curious,...but i'm wondering how he would deal with an over and under?
I hope this wasn't your gun,...and hopefuly he's not your "gunsmith"
I think it was Homelass Joe, that did the JB and the screw job!
I've also had pretty good luck with silly putty...only draw back.
It tends to get runny when you shoot black powder because of the barrel heat.
Most of the sxs guns I've had didn't have enough space between the barrels for a screw to fit at the muzzles. Unless it was a throw-away gun, I wouldn't do anything to it that was irreversable. Have a well recommended pro do it.
If I'm not mistaken or misunderstanding you here, the short sections of rib at the breech often include the rib extension or dolls head. As such, they are a part of the locking or breeching mechanism and subject to firing forces. It is my understanding that this area is commonly joined with braze or silver solder. A proper repair in this area will require different material and method, and more heat which would possibly melt the lower temp solder holding the long rib. I hope we can get a more learned opinion on this before you jump in with screws and J-B Weld. I think some of the guys here are confusing the lifting of a small section of the long rib with the short section that starts at the rib extension and ends usually over the chambers. Is this where the short rib is lifting...over the chambers around the forcing cone area?
All kidding aside...this is not Stallones first pony ride.
I have ran into situations where the upper and lower ribs were put on with the same temp solder . when I find this , I normally set the barrels in a water bath while soldering the upper rib . If you don’t keep the bottom rib cool you end up chasing . Top to bottom then back to top so on and so forth .
Also we have to remember acid core or acid based flux was also often used this can cause rusting under the barrel rib which is best cleaned out during a repair ..
Frankly I don’t see this as a hard fix or for that mater a real issue if done correctly .
The rib can simply be re soldered as shown in the Midway clip or by using wide welding clamps .
As to the screw issue . If the barrels were set parallel and not converged then there will be a space between the muzzles . HOWEVER you don’t see many barrels done that way anymore . Now if the area was back some 4 or 5 inches ?? You might have enough space . But even then you have not sealed the seams . Condensation will build up and the barrels will start to rust under the rib
JB weld ? Ahhhhhhh no
Do it right the first time and then you don’t have to worry about it or say : so far its held .
Just remember Leighton- with Homeless Joe- you have to keep reminding him-with screws: "Righty Tighty- Left Loosey"- sorta like the boss man with a crew of Polacks laying sod at the condo-every so often, you gotta remind them: Green side goes up, brown goes down!
Fox I see now why you prefer the pump gun.
...a SxS offers you two too many choices.
Keith,
The long rib is lifting where it meets the Rib extension above the chambers.
Stallones, Then the situation is probably not that serious as long as the rib is undamaged and there is not serious corrosion underneath between the barrels. If you are lucky, the old solder and any contaminants can be cleaned on the loose section, and then fluxed and re-soldered. If it's not possible to do a thorough cleaning job, the entire upper long rib may have to be removed and re-layed. I've done a couple small repairs but have not had to do a complete re-lay job. There are several methods of controlling the heat of the soldering torch to keep from loosening the bottom rib such as submerging the lower portion in water or placing steel rod in the bores to act as a heat sink. Even with a small repair, it would be very tough to clean the joint without damaging the bluing. I might consider J-B Weld on a cheap barn gun, but I ask those who suggest using it on a good double how they would feel about coming home from a shop or gun show with a new baby and finding it had such a repair. It's not irreversible, but it would sure complicate things.
Just my two cents, but when soldering such a repair, just wire the upper and lower ribs just like a complete re-lay job. It takes a little time to wire it properly, but it provides assurance that the opposite rib and the rib you're trying to solder doesn't move. Then you don't have to resort to efforts to keep the opposite rib cool. It really isn't hard to wire it and you'll move forward with confidence when you solder.
My thought on the whole subject is that it's possible there could be significant rust under the rib that eventually caused this problem. It could even be to the level that you might want to assess the safety of the barrels due to extreme rust. Probably not. But I'd want to know.
Heck, everyone seems to be concerned about bore pitting from a safety perspective and I've only seen one gun that I'd worry about and it had 1/8" diameter pits halfway thru the chamber walls (on the inside of the chamber). Yet when indications like a loose rib and corrosion creeping out from under a rib show themselves, a lot of people will choose to deny the potential for serious problems under the ribs because the repair is expensive. So, they go for the quick fix.
The one thing that I took away from Andy ____witz when Bruce had his fathers Win 21 redone on Shotgun Journal, was that Andy wouldn't do a quick fix on this kind of problem (Bruce's fathers gun had a loose rib) because he'd run across a number of guns that were damaged so much he wouldn't re-lay the ribs and have the guns resold to some poor unknowing sucker.
Well said, Chuck. And timely.
Great info Chuck. I'm now wondering if anyone here has encountered an otherwise nice condition gun that has had severe corrosion between the ribs. So far, I've gone by the largely circumstantial evidence of how bad the loose area looks and the overall condition of the gun. If it looks like it has been loose for some time and has the appearance of a gun that was "put away wet" or used in a salt marsh, etc., I would opt for rib removal for a closer look. Maybe that's not enough. Any thoughts?
