Although the 28g. Belgian sub 5lb. gun we discussed (see: http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...e1b#Post126447) is primarily designed for hunting it is inevitable for me to shoot it at skeet or some such just for fun. I have several options including the 2 1/2" 5/8oz. RST loads or such. I would like to try reloading a 5/8 ounce lighter load than typical factory loads here. I have tried the usual suspects, IMR, Hodgdon, Winchester and Alliant with no luck. They all start at 3/4 ounce.

Can anyone point me to 5/8 ounce loading data for a 28g. hull?

Builder, I also have a 4 3/4 pound Belgium made gun, a nice little Francotte Knockabout ejector. It is uncomfortable to shoot with factory loads or my 3/4 ounce reloads. I installed my heavy .410 shot bushing in my PW 800B, which is somewhat less than 5/8 ounce, more like just over a half ounce. I left the powder charge alone to keep the pressure reasonable, filled the shot cup with a .410 card wad and loaded my shells just like a normal 28 gauge load. They are great little loads, no recoil and obviously low pressure. You can fill the shot cup with just about anything you can find that doesn't weigh anything, like a couple of pinto beans or a .410 card wad. I like soft fillers or pinto beans on top of the shot, but a hard spacer like a .410 card wad works just fine in the bottom of the shot cup.

I will not list a powder charge or bushing. But go to your manuals and select a light 1100-1200 fps 3/4 oz load that uses a relatively fast 28 ga powder. This means Unique or Universal. Believe it or not, there are some Green Dot loads out there - and that's my personal preference. Whatever.......

Use the selected 3/4 oz powder charge as a starting point. Or you can drop the charge about 1/2 grain. Load 5/8 oz #8.5s or #9s. Following shot drop place a couple kernels of puffed rice on top of the shot column. Alternatively, I've used 1/2 a packing peanut (for the less environmentally conscious). You may need to lower the crimp start and raise the crimp to get nice closure with minimal dishing.

A safe powder charge for 3/4 shot will be safe with 5/8 oz. But consistency is something else. I always use a chronograph to verify that loads are reasonably consistent.

The 5/8 oz 28 is a very nice load. I load 5/8 oz 20s as well.

Sam

May be difficult (or impossible) to find these days, but Armusa offered a factory 28ga 5/8oz load a few years ago. Cheddite hulls, no shot cups. I bought a batch in 7-1/2 shot size, not aware that there were other shot sizes available.

I recall shooting some 5/8 oz 28ga Rios at skeet. When I missed, I blamed the shells . . . but it may have been operator error.

In Lyman's 5th Edition there are a few low pressure-low velocity loads that should be nice to shoot.
The one is 3/4 oz. using the new Winchester High Strength (HS) cases. You can't interchange with the old Win. AA compression formed ones.
It calls for 12.0 grs. 800x powder, Win. 209 primer, Win WAA28HS wad, 1135 fps, 7,400 psi.
Also using a Fiocchi Plastic case, 3/4 oz shot, 12.5 grs. 800X, Fio.616 primer, Rem.PT28 wad, 1135 fps, 7,100 psi.

If you cut these 2 3/4" hulls to 2 1/2" and roll crimp them with one .030 overshot card, the roll crimp will work out fine and it is possible you might have to cut them slightly more to get a good roll crimp. I had to do this with 12 ga 2 3/4" cut to 2 1/2" and then cut to 2 3/8" to get a nice roll crimp.
From what I have read the pressure increase from 6 point to roll crimp is negligent if not less.
I would guess that you are not loading a lot and cutting a few boxes would be easy and so would the roll crimping.

I like my original answer for my friend "Builder". However, for the information of everyone involved in this thread, RST makes an excellent low pressure 5/8 ounce load in 2 1/2" cases which would be suitable for older guns of light weight, even composite barrel guns in good condition. I shoot the RST 5/8 ounce loads in short chambered Parkers. I use the 1/2 ounce reloads in the 4 3/4 pound Francotte. rstshells.com for the RST price list.

The standard Eley Grand Prix 28 bore load is 9/16th. ounce, if you can source them. Lagopus.....

I think Ballistic products has some wads, and data for 5/8oz 28ga loads. You can call them and they are very helpful, at least to me they have been.

Possibly adaptable to a 2.5" case. I had more than 8 lbs of SR 4756 and none of the powders I normally use in this gauge so I gave it a try. I use IMR load data for AA case(old style). Recoil is very light as compared to faster powders. Down side is that it's dirty. I let a recoil sensitive friend try them and now that is all he loads. The dirty load would not be good for an auto but in a break open gun it's no problem.

I agree with Sam. Here's the Green Dot load to start with: http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/R...=3&gauge=28

I haven't used Green Dot, but I have used International Clays with 5/8 oz, the older, short AAHS hulls, and the Claybuster HS wad. It works great and I didn't even need a filler.

What a great response. Thanks all. I have lots of Universal and STS hulls so that would be a good starting point. Now the STS hulls don't have a long life but as the folded crimp area burns through they are candidates for 2 1/2 hulls- maybe with a Harten crimp using 410 over shot cards to take up space. Wonder if a hole puncher would make big enough ones for this purpose. The disc is 1/4". Worth a try and I better pull those burnt hulls out of my waste basket before I bury them with more junk on top. I think I now know where to start. What great ideas. I have messed around with 12g. but this is like micro work. Should be fun. Now to find the time to do all this. Happy holidays and a happy and healthy New Year to all of you. What a great bunch of friends I have made here on this board.

Milt

Milt, Green Dot is way too fast burning and high pressure for a gun such as yours. You are better off sticking to a slower powder like Unique and light shot loads to keep the pressure well below 10,000. Green Dot is not a preferred powder in 28 gauge even though it is mentioned in the occasional published load. Those loads are meant for people who just happen to have Green Dot on hand and have a modern 28 gauge gun.

Post deleted by builder

It is a 1963 gun but it is an inexpensive one designed for 2 1/2" shells. I was hoping to use Universal but that is published at 11,500psi so even if I drop it a half grain with 5/8 oz.shot I doubt it would go below 11K. I think I may have the duster wads on hand but I have had experience with some of the smaller brands like Windjammer and they come out way above the published data. There was a thread the other day about this wad with Clays powder in 12g. published at 5500psi and I did not trust it and had Ambrust check them. They came in over 7500 psi as an average.


The more I learn, it seems, the less I know. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Curious, I have switched to PB for my low pressure 12g. loads for a lot of reasons but in 28 gauge it provides a fairly high pressure load.

Milt, the "elaboration" is very simple and I outlined it in the previous post. A fast burning powder like Green Dot is not suitable for your gun because of the high pressure generated by the faster burning rate and the 3/4 ounce load. As you go down in shot weight and powder burning rate, the pressure goes down. Although the Unique is a better choice than the Green Dot, the Herco would be better yet. A mild shot of Herco with a 5/8 ounce or less shot load would get you down into the nines, maybe even the eights. This would be a much better choice for your gun or a Damascus 28 than any of the Alliant published loads. I would cut about a half grain or more of powder from any Herco load listed above, load it with 5/8 ounce or less and a spacer and send it to Tom A. It should come in at a safe pressure range for your gun and the pressure should be plenty high to eliminate off sound loads as long as you use good empties. Murphy

Milt, if you send any more of the light loads to Tom A., let us know what pressure they generate.

I would be happy to. When I get the 28 gauge loads ready, I will. It will be a while since I have to order the 5/8 ounce bar for my MEC 9000.

If I had any sense I would have sent my PB loads to him instead of just trusting the manual. If anyone has tested the PB 20 grain., Claybuster wad, one ounce lead shot, Remington primer, 5100 psi as published on line at IMR I would love to hear from them regarding pressure and velocity.

That would be a good application for a universal charge bar. You could tweek the ingredients (downward) until everything just fits, then send it off to be chrono'd.
Here is what I am using for skeet and it works very well:
AA 28 (old style not HS)
Win 209/chedite is ok to sub
claybuster wad
5/8 oz lead shot.
You might need a touch of filler depending on your loader.

My wife shoots a 28. I load some loads with HS6 that are almost recoiless...seem to break rocks and kill the neighbors pigeons.