doublegunshop.com - home Forums Thread Like Summary - Viable Project or Wallhanger

Ever since finding a First Model Facile Princeps (the one with a swinging hook on the front lump) I have wanted a later model Facile Princeps (sliding cocking stud through front lump) to keep it company.

Other than the photos (from which it looks to be a much used sleeper) I have bought it sight unseen for slightly less than the Parking fine I got for overstaying at MacDonalds.

It was built c.1904, original 2 1/2” Nitro Proof and as sold as a gun will be at least nominally “in Proof”.

I will have to await delivery to see if previous owners had learnt how to use a cleaning rod?

Just taken it round to Paul Roberts at J. Roberts and Sons, Gunmakers. The good news is that it is well in proof with minimum wall thicknesses of about .030” on each barrel. Chokes about 5 thou and 9 thou.

The bad news is that a previous owner was not over careful about cleaning, and whilst it is still shootable there is a moderate amount of pitting that may affect patterns,

It is a Grade F16, a non-ejector and the cheapest Facile Princeps grade Greener offered before WW1.

It dates from 1904 and the Greener made Damascus barrels complete with Elephant trade marks have a nice pattern but will benefit from re-browning. Stan, I will try to take before and after pictures.

Greener stopped making Damascus tubes in house in 1903 so these tubes are likely to be some of the last ones they produced. Paul suggested that Greener might have been using up their stock of Damascus on their cheaper guns.

To have it re-bored to the next size up and hopefully get rid of the pitting with re-proof would likely cost £300 when it might then be worth £100.

I was tempted to do that but as it is shootable as it stands common sense prevails. I will strip and clean it, refinish the exterior of the barrels annd enjoy it for what it is.

I have a pair of tollys I have been rebuilding,restocking recutting engraving I had to sleeve the barrels ,I have bored the trousers made sleeve tubes from old barrels I want to do invisible sleeve so I have been taking a tig welding class for two semesters.it has become a bet with myself to finish them.yours is a piece of cake

The Vikings would have approved!

Before and after pics, when you get in it in hand?

Curtesy of another member here, I’m just taking on a new project gun. One right up my alley.

I don’t know what it is but I would rather bring something back from the dead and be a bit underwater, then make a modestly good deal on a perfect gun.

Are the barrels good? Do you want to get into working on the notoriously difficult facile Princeps?

I say Good Luck and have fun.

That sounds like the exact plan I would take. If I was into that ‘sorta thing.

I’m convinced Damascus is a state of mind.

Good luck.

Best,
Ted

If the Greener had belonged to my shooting grandfather I would spend the money on getting the bores cleaned out. No question.

Family legend says that he shot with a Purdey, but I never heard what type or where it went to. I just hope that it wasn’t buried with him, I have heard of that happening in the past.

Looks like a worthy project. We can't save them all, but we can try.

When it left the factory it would have looked more like this (but with brown Damascus barrels).

I think this will indeed become a viable project. At that price point - the same as 25 Bismuth cartridges - then it must be worth a go. Nice open chokes for some sociable clay shooting, or maybe even standard steel??

I look forward to regular updates...

A neighbour has just bought a single trigger ejector Italian over/ under at a local auction for £10.00, or $13.00 for our American cousins. Plus I read about lots of last minute 'opportunities' for game shooting here in GB. I feel that times are hard for many.

HB

Problem is that anything that needs to be done professionally (other than measuring wall thicknesses and sucking in breath whilst raising eyebrows) is going to cost more than this box-lock non ejector is ever going to be worth.

If I am very lucky and the bores are not too horribly pitted, I can cope with cleaning and sympathetic re-finishing and perhaps occasional use (..410 inserts?).

As Ted observed at the moment I am not out much.

At least I do not have to worry about Greener ejectors, although surprisingly the ones on my J.V . Needham BLE still work after 130 years!

The 1904 grade F16 is essentially, after wartime and post war inflation, the same gun as the F25 shown here in this late 1930’s catalogue.

My F16 which weighs in at 6lb 7oz with 30 inch barrels.

It appears to have gone overseas as just behind the tang it is stamped ?B1574 which I am told is possibly a Kenyan registration mark.

My old quail hunting mentor and friend shot a well worn graded Parker 20 that his father had bought new for him at about age 14. He had been shooting it some 56 years when I got to know him. It had to be sent to Del Grego for repairs once, and he found another exactly like the original, to use while his beloved 20 ga. was away for repairs. He never shot it as well as the original.

When Tom died his son, and only child, buried him in his quail hunting clothes, with his first Parker by his side, in the casket. I assume his son kept the other one.