doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Question regarding 9.3x74R

On a double rifle if I am being told it was regulated with a bullet weighing 18,5g I have figured out that this is about 286 grain bullet.
But my question is that I am being told it was loaded with 16.5 oder which I am assuming is the charge of powder that was used to regulate the gun. Can someone help me with some sort of conversion or starting point for a powder type & charge that would closely replicate 16,5 oder the rifle was regulated with? Since the gun was proofed (built) in 1975 I am assuming this is a smokeless powder not black or stick...

This is an Austrian built SXS double rifle, relatively plain, open sights that was built (proofed) in 1975.

Thanks Much...
WBLDon

WBLDon,
This is somewhat confusing, can you show "word for word" what you were informed? In German, the word "oder" means "or", so I think they may be referring to 16.5 as bullet weight rather than powder charge. A powder charge of 16.5 grams would be 254.6 grains, which greatly exceeds the capacity of a 9.3x74R case. The 286 grain softpoint( 18.5 gram TM) was a more or less "standard bullet", but the 258 grain H jacket copper covered hollow point( 16.7 gram HMK) was a very popular and very often used bullet. Reading between the lines, I think someone was telling you that the rifle will shoot with either the 18.5 g TM, or the 16.7g HMK (note: Germans use , instead of . in writing numbers). Especially if it is an O/U, this makes sense to me. When I first got my O/U 9.3x74R double barrel set, regulated for 293 grain Torpedo Universal bullet( 19.0 g TUG); I shot a group with 2 rounds each with 19 g TUG, 18.5 g TM, 16.7g HMK, and a handload with 18.5g Norma SP. The composite group at 100 meters would have been acceptable to hunt with( Red Deer size game). From a SXS double, I have no experience with different bullet weights.
Mike

Mike,

The maker sent me the following:
The rifle was tested at that time with 16,5g oder 18,5g bullets from Hirtenberg / Austria.

Thanks for your help...
WBLDon

Since oder translates to or in English I'll go with Der Ami and since Hirtenberger made ammo you will probably want something comparable as regards velocity. The easy way to check would be to buy some current European production S&B or PRVI or Norma (or Hornady) ammo and shoot it. Many factors are involved in barrel time such as case capacity (which will vary according to the maker) and the relative burn rate of the powder and the exact bullet and primer in use. You may get lucky with factory ammo or you may have to experiment on your own. Powders will probably be in the Vihta Vuori N135, IMR4064, Reloader 15, Vihta Vouri N140 or IMR4320 range. I could tell you what my single shot likes but doubles are a whole other animal.

WBLDon,
What the seller told you was : The rifle was tested at that time with 16.5g or 18.5g bullets from Hirtenberg/ Austria ( remember what I said before about the German use of ,and. in numbers). Hirtenberger ammo is good Austrian made ammo, but I always used RWS, so I'm not that familiar with these particular bullets. I do recall( I believe) that they offered some of the first monolithic spire point bullets( Tombac Kegel Spitz?) available. The 7x57 Hirtenberger ammo seemed to be " high pressure in my rifle", so I didn't try it in other rifles. I would think you could load any bullets you can find weighing 250 to 286 grains and have good results in your rifle.
Mike

So to clarify matters a bit... were these regulation loads with Hirtenberg BULLETS of 16,5 g or 18,5 g weight and unknown powder charges, or was this factory loaded Hirtenberg ammunition? I am asking because I don't know if Hirtenberg sells bullets or only loaded cartridges.

I would think the muzzle velocity of these bullets would determine whether they will regulate in your rifle since the regulation load is a function of both bullet weight and velocity. Shooting the same 16,5 or 18,5 g bullets at different velocities than the regulation loads is going to change the point of impact.

Thanks for the assistance folks. Unfortunately the deal on the rifle fell apart..

Again thank you..

WBLDon