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The Shot-gun and Sporting Rifle: And the Dogs, Ponies, Ferrets, &c., Used with Them in the Various Kinds of Shooting and Trapping
John Henry Walsh (Stonehenge) 1859
http://books.google.com/books?id=6ftIAAAAIAAJ
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eiRIMUaG-dpdIv02IwxchhL8m9zlLNu-Ek2GYbtCgbY/edit


The Gun and Its Development: With Notes on Shooting 1881
http://books.google.com/books?id=LAsAAAAAQAAJ

W.W. Greener in the barrel-welding workship at St. Mary's works, watching Damascus rods being twisted and the coils of a Damascus barrel being forge-welded.




The Modern Sportsman's Gun and Rifle: Including Game and Wildfowl Guns, Sporting and Match Rifles, and Revolvers
John Henry Walsh (Editor of The Field) 1882
http://books.google.com/books?id=OLwUAAAAYAAJ
I am indebted to Mr. Thos. Webley, who visited Belgium after the 1879 Trials, with a view to discover the reasons why the barrels forged there are more free from flaws than those made at Birmingham.
"A large quantity of Belgian tubes, called Pointille, similar in figure to our Iron Damascus (often called Laminated) have been used in cheap guns for the last three years, and these are especially wanting in toughness and density of metal. These tubes are cheaper than iron Damascus made at Birmingham, are more regular in figure, and have fewer greys, but the result is obtained at the entire sacrifice of density and toughness of metal; for it is a fact that, though these tubes may stand proof, the iron is so soft and rotten that they will not wear or stand any extra or repeated strain. These remarks apply, but in a smaller degree, to all Belgian tubes, whether Iron Damascus (Pointille), or Damascus (Damas turc). As one proof of this, when you see a choke-bored barrel bulge at the choke, it is almost sure to be a Belgian tube. We were, in common with our competitors, excepting for first and second quality, using a large proportion of these tubes; in fact, we think that quite three-fourths of the tubes used in Birmingham are Belgian make, and nearly all the London trade use them, with this difference, that they use the best quality, which are no doubt harder than the cheaper kinds, but are still softer and less durable than those of English make, and cost as much."


c. 1890 James Purdey II wrote concerning steel barrels that he preferred damascus but acknowledged that "...weight for weight steel is stronger than iron and shoots harder, though not of so handsome an appearance as damascus barrels." He favored Belgian damascus because "...not that when thorough sound English damascus can be obtained they are not superior, but because Belgian workmen are more careful than English, and there is thus less risk of slag and rubbish getting into the welds."


Letters to Young Shooters: (First series) On the choice and use of a gun
Ralph William Frankland-Payne-Gallwey 1892
http://books.google.com/books?id=Eh9DAAAAIAAJ
There is, however, some little uncertainty about our English Damascus. Really good English Damascus barrels, when they can be obtained, are superior to Belgian; but those of English make vary considerably in their excellence. They are also produced in much smaller quantities, and are often difficult to obtain just as required. The Belgian Damascus are more regular as to figure, and more free from 'specks' and 'greys,' than are the English, besides being softer, and easier to work. For these reasons many of our gun-makers find it simpler to procure their barrels from Belgium, as there is a very small percentage of inferior quality imported from that country, and as many as wanted can also be easily procured at short notice. As it is the fashion of English sportsmen to imagine that nothing good in the way of guns or barrels can reach us from the Continent, Belgian Damascus, in order to fall in with this popular delusion, is often sold as English. Still, if a gun is fitted with best Damascus, whether of English or foreign make, it is of small consequence to the shooter; but the fact remains, that so-called English Damascus is frequently Belgian, and that the Belgian barrels of this manufacture are, generally speaking, more reliable than those made in England.


The Gun and Its Development, William Wellington Greener, 1907
In London the barrel-welding industry was never of great importance since 1844 no gun-barrel welder has practised in the Metropolis. The last maker was W. Fullard, of Clerkenwell, who enjoyed a high reputation for all kinds of sporting gun barrels. The military barrels were obtained from the Midlands, whence, or from foreign centres, the figured barrels used by London makers are now imported. In the Midlands the barrel welders are not so numerous as they were, the demand for twisted barrels not being so great as formerly.

More here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1l_N8MawmfqrhNKC8C1IGFAD7lWR9naxGDyrEErT73OQ/edit

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oPd3fOeToSHZwCaahXNIyV3sGVqow_Z_ENO8Fnk7kTQ/preview


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I concede I was wrong and jOe was right. At least a majority of the composite barrels on English guns were made there. I misremembered my Greener.

jOe you were right. I was wrong.



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Originally Posted By: Drew Hause


c. 1890 James Purdey II wrote concerning steel barrels that he preferred damascus but acknowledged that "...weight for weight steel is stronger than iron and shoots harder, though not of so handsome an appearance as damascus barrels." He favored Belgian damascus because "...not that when thorough sound English damascus can be obtained they are not superior, but because Belgian workmen are more careful than English, and there is thus less risk of slag and rubbish getting into the welds."



I suspect Purdey made this claim because those were the tubes he was using....covering his arse before the word got out.

In one breath he says English is superior but then goes on to say the Belgium workers are more careful.

My bet is either English makers cut Purdey off or he went Belgium to save money.

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Originally Posted By: AmarilloMike
I concede I was wrong and jOe was right. At least a majority of the composite barrels on English guns were made there. I misremembered my Greener.

jOe you were right. I was wrong.


If you base the "majority" on lower quality Birmingham guns made after the 1880's then I might agree...

But I'm not reading you a bed time story.

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Originally Posted By: Drew Hause
c. 1890 James Purdey II wrote concerning steel barrels that he preferred damascus but acknowledged that "...weight for weight steel is stronger than iron and shoots harder, though not of so handsome an appearance as damascus barrels." He favored Belgian damascus because "...not that when thorough sound English damascus can be obtained they are not superior, but because Belgian workmen are more careful than English, and there is thus less risk of slag and rubbish getting into the welds."


There is evidence that many were concerned about the amount of gin consumed at lunch in the Midlands. I have some documents from archives that point to this, but have never put much stock in it. However, that quote by Purdey makes it sound like that was a common belief.

Pete

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Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Originally Posted By: AmarilloMike
I concede I was wrong and jOe was right. At least a majority of the composite barrels on English guns were made there. I misremembered my Greener.

jOe you were right. I was wrong.


If you base the "majority" on lower quality Birmingham guns made after the 1880's then I might agree...


So you disagree that you were right and I was wrong? Hell if I know.

Last edited by AmarilloMike; 01/08/14 07:32 PM.


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I just hate to see me cause you to go insane like Ed did... wink

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jOe:
Insanity starts in puberty for boys and we all know how that happens!! eek grin
Jim


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Drew thanks for those links, quotes, and information. I especially liked the quote from James Purdey II.

You too LeFusil.



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