doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 3 inch 20g

Probably old news to everyone, but came upon this 1913 ad for the 20g Stevens Hammerless Repeating Shotgun No. 200, apparently with a 3" chamber

http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1913/VOL_62_NO_12/SL6212020.PDF

Researcher will likely let us know when the first 3" 20g shell appeared. The Widgeon Duck Club 3" shells loaded with 2 1/2 drams equiv. and 7/8 ounces of shot I believe were pre-WWI.

Yep, old news Dave's previous comments

Three-inch shells have been around just about as long as cartridge shotguns have been around. Prior to repeaters, which needed a certain length shell to function reliably, there were a plethora of shell lengths. In my 1903 UMC catalogue there were 12-gauge paper shells 2 5/8, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch. The 16-gauge was available 2 9/16, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, and 3 inch. The 20-gauge was offered in 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, and 3 inch. In those days these longer shells didn't pack a heavier payload, but more and better wadding for a better gas seal which many serious Pigeon shooters thought to be an advantage. The first time I see the longer shells packing a heavier load was around 1912 for the 3-inch 20-gauge for the famous Widgeon Duck Club Parker Bros. guns and the J. Stevens A & T Co. pump gun. These 3-inch 20-gauge shells packed 2 1/2 drams equiv and 7/8 ounce of shot as opposed to the max load of 2 1/4 drams equiv and 7/8 ounce of shot in the standard 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shell of those days!!! Several of the early Ansley H. Fox graded 20-gauge guns, circa 1912-13 were chambered for the 3-inch shell of that period. WW-I and the rise of repeaters requiring a specific length shell to operate reliably did away with this plethora of shell lengths briefly.

Wards auctions just sold two incredibly rare boxes of early 3" 20 gauge ammo, 7/8 and 1 ounce. One box sold for $804.00 and the other sold for $237.00. I think the item numbers are 1023 and 1030 and are still listed and pictured on the website. In the teens, Parker Brothers offered 3" 20 gauge guns, warning customers that 3 inch 7/8 and 1 ounce loads are not recommended and are not available from ammunition companies. However, the Ward auction proves otherwise, although these shells may be later than the Parker Brothers pamphlet. In the same period that Parker Brothers warned against the 1 ounce loads, they were honoring orders for 20 gauge guns test patterned with those exact loads!

I recently acquired a model 200. Researcher was kind enough to share his knowledge of these interesting 3" 20ga. guns w/me. The forged take-down spanner is incorporated in the magazine tube as it's cap!

As noted in another thread, the shotgun version of the Win 1885 Hiwall was only offered in 3" 20 ga. chambering. No "repeating problems," there!

Yes, long shells had a following, especially in the pre-WW-I days. From my collection of old ammo catlogues Peters seems to be the only company to regularly offer extra-length versions of their modern progressive burning powder High Velocity loads --





The sporting collectibles market seems to be holding up pretty well, as I only got three of the seven little items I bid on from Wards and the two boxes of 3-inch 20-gauge shells I bid on sailed past and way past my comfort zone. The two-piece box of standard length Peters 20-gauges with the Red Head on the label puts shooting Nice-Shot into perspective at $1050!!

Reaearcher, do you know whether that little Peters motto "steel where steel belongs" in the ad has anything to do with the construction of the shells themselves? Were they perhaps reinforced by steel in the case head?

It seems from my collection of old ammunition catalogues that by the teens at least Western Cartridge Co. featured their "Locked with Steel" reinforced heads in both their Field and Record shells; Remington-UMC advertised "Steel Lined" for their Nitro Club and Arrow Shells by 1910; and Peters Cartridge Co. had their "Steel Where Steel Belongs"; all various styles of steel reinforced heads. In the Western cartridges the steel actuall locked in the base wads.

These boxes of extra length Arrow shells are by Remington Arms-Union Metallic Cartridge Co. which puts them in the 1911 to 1916 time frame. The company name added Inc. on January 14, 1916. They can be narrowed a bit more the March 12, 1912, U.S. Patent date.

c. 1909

Partial bag during a late October waterfowling trip nearby the shores of the St Lawrence river in northern NY. Gun is a 32" straight grip Parker VH with heavy 32" barrels and factory chambered to 20 gauge/3-inch. The load was BCC factory shells with 1-1/16 oz of #4 bismuth. From this admittedly limited test I'd say those purists who bought 20 gauge, long-barreled, tightly choked Fox HE's and Parkers back in the day, knew what they could do if pointed right. Silvers