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Thanks. whoever did it did a great job, I have an idea, but who knows.

Sorry, my first post was meant for somebody else

How’s that working out for you Bill? That cesspool flowed uphill, into the mighty Rockys, huh Bill? Make sure you volunteer to house a few of those fentanyl junkies that’re dying on a street corner near you.

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/cashmore-s-trap-gun

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/lindner-on-cashmore

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=137719

Billy, your response is both predictable and pathetic.

Let's talk about what Brainwashing really is...

Being Brainwashed is when you Billy, were gloating about how certain you were that Trump would be indicted by the results of the Mueller Investigation into alleged Russian collusion. You even bragged about the "It's Mueller Time!" tee shirt you proudly wore. Now even Liberal Left News Media has acknowledged that it was a FALSE claim based on a fake dossier that was paid for by the Hillary Clinton campaign. That Democrat lie led to an illegal use of the FISA Court to illegally spy on Trump and his associates. The "whistleblowers" that Adam Schiff swore he would produce to provide evidence were never produced... because they were fictional, and he was lying.

Being Brainwashed is hysterically claiming that Trump must have cheated on his income taxes, because he refused to show his personal tax records. Nevermind that Obama never produced his educational records. You were sure Trump was a tax cheat. Then a Liberal Left IRS employee illegally leaked Trumps income tax forms to the Liberal Media... and they combed through them and found NOTHING WRONG. Even a complete idiot should have been able to see that because he had been audited by the IRS numerous times. Yet you Libtards say nothing about Hunter and Ashley Biden not filing income taxes for years, or anything about Hunter claiming expenses for prostitutes as a business expense.

Being Brainwashed is blindly supporting Joe Biden's relentless assault on the 2nd Amendment Rights of law abiding citizens, and then ignoring him using his DOJ to keep Hunter from being charged or convicted of his crime of lying about his drug addiction on a Federal FFL Form 4473 when he bought his handgun.

Being Brainwashed is believing the lies by Democrat lies told by over 50 Liberal Left Intelligence officers who, just before the 2020 Election, said that Hunter Bidens laptop was nothing but Russian disinformation. There's another Democrat lie that has also been acknowledged by the Liberal Left Media. Even the drug addled criminal Hunter Biden himself has admitted it was his, and filed a lawsuit against the owner of the repair shop who provided it after Hunted abandoned it, and the contents of his criminal activity.

Being Brainwashed is when you Liberals claim Trump is guilty of sexual assaults and rapes, but brushing aside the claims that Biden raped Tara Reade. Or how about ignoring the entries in Ashley Biden's diary that she was sexualized at an early age by "inappropriate showers with her father" Joe Biden. If Trump's daughter ever said the same thing you Brainwashed Liberals would also be charging him as a pedophile... but your Cult Leader gets a total pass from all of you.

Being Brainwashed is your complicit silence about the illegal invasion and obstruction of justice that prohibits the U.S. Border Patrol and Immigration and Naturalization from doing their job, as millions of Illegal Aliens flow across out Southern Border. Being Brainwashed is how you all wring your little hands when some nutcase kills a handful of people in a mass shooting, yet you all totally ignore how the same violation of our Border Laws is bringing in tons of drugs, and drug overdose deaths have exploded to well over 100,000 people every years since Biden took Executive Action to dismantle Trump's Border Policy, to halt construction of the Border Wall, and to actually weld gates in the wall in an open position.

Being Brainwashed is claiming Trump is a dangerous warmonger, while ignoring that he wiped out ISIS, kept North Korea in check, and kept Putin from further attacks on the Ukraine... which started because of disastrous Foreign Policy blunders that led to Putin taking Crimea and the Dombass region. Being Brainwashed is being willing to support Biden's and his handler's bonehead moves that led to the current and costly Ukraine war. It was idiots like Biden, Obama, Anthony Blinken, Valerie Jarrett, etc. that pushed for the unnecessary expansion of NATO... which we had promised Putin would not happen. Your guys broke that pledge and crossed Putin's Red Line, and now we are seeing NATO burning through its' resources. We are seeing Biden's sanctions that largely failed, and threaten a dangerous scenario where the BRICS Nations successfully replace the U.S. Dollar as the standard world reserve currency. That would make the rampant Biden Inflation we have seen seem like a minor thing.

Being Brainwashed is standing by like stupid Democrat Sheep while Biden flip flops on support for Israel after the brutal Hamas attack... an attack that never would have happened if Biden didn't remove Trump's sanctions on Iran. You all praise this backstabbing idiot Biden, who repeatedly calls for Israel to stand down, and can't bring himself to even mention that Hamas brought this war upon themselves by attacking, killing, raping and kidnapping thousands of Israelis. He is supporting Hamas barbarians who gouged peoples eyes out and put babies in oven to burn alive while raping their mothers as the babies screamed in pain. Biden is doing this to appease pro-Palestinian protesters who are chanting "Death to Israel--- Death to America". You fools who think the Jan. 6th protest was an Insurrection are silent about these Muslim Palestinian supporters who hate us... because you all are afraid it may cost Biden votes in Muslim towns in Michigan and elsewhere.

Being Brainwashed is when you refuse to criticize the insanity of the Afghanistan Withdrawal, the abandonment of U.S. citizens, and leaving behind over $80 Billion worth of advanced weapons that are being used by Taliban and Muslim terrorists, and are even being sold to the Mexican Drug Cartels in their war on the U.S.

Being Brainwashed is ignoring the long history of extreme racism by Democrat politicians, their lynchings and resistance to desegregation, their support and membership in the KKK, their refusal to support all three Civil Rights Acts, their refusal to vote in favor of giving women the right to vote, and their recent stance against Illegal Immigration. I've given you lots of proof in the past, and you always run from it, and try to change the subject like a good little Democrat soldier. Democrats will say and do anything to hide their past and their true agenda. And Brainwashed cultists like you gladly help them.

Being Brainwashed is your refusal to acknowledge or criticize how Biden and Merrick Garland have weaponized the Justice System to attack Trump and Conservatives, while ignoring crimes committed by Democrats. Trump aide Peter Navarro was ordered to prison March 19 for defying House Jan. 6 panel subpoena. Merrick Garland and Hunter Biden are in defiance of Congressional subpoenas, but have not been charged. How is that OK with you? Obama aide David Simas also defied a Congressional subpoena, and Obama's Attorney General Eric Holder was held in contempt of Congress for his refusal to testify. But you Brainwashed cultists will insist that there is no double standard of Justice under Democrat rule.

Being Brainwashed is having the innate ability to refuse to believe there was widespread 2020 Election Fraud... and even being in denial of video evidence and many actual convictions for illegally rigging the election to help Democrats.

Being Brainwashed is seeing massive homeless tent cities filled with drug addicts, and walking carefully to avoid stepping in human feces on the sidewalks of Democrat controlled cities like San Francisco, Portland, Seattle, etc., and saying with a straight face that this is the path Americans should choose.

There is so much more of this shit Billy... but none of it means a thing to you and Biden's other Brainwashed cultists. You will keep on supporting this senile anti-gun criminal, along with Obama and his other puppet-masters. You are a deluded Liberal Left sock-puppet who will keep spreading Democrat lies until your last breath. If anyone needs a Trump Bible, it is Godless people like you who hate Trump so badly that you will totally ignore criminal incompetence, even if it totally destroys the United States.

The good news is that if Russia, North Korea, China, and Iran attack us with nukes, you, Al Gore, the Nutty Professor, and Jimmy W won't have to worry about atmospheric CO2 levels anymore.

My point was that I told Gary I collected based on originality. The more original the gun, the more I was interested. He assured me that the gun was all original, except for the barrels might have been refinished. He lied about the gun.

Try this

https://www.eldreds.com/auction-lot/*-j.p.-sauer-sohn-side-by-side-shotgun-early-20_CA8418CA75

You should be able to copy it and paste it in your browser

Mr. Roberts: I completely understand about the beauty of a slim, light and long sub-gauge gun. They ARE quite attractive! My brother shoots a Scottish 20 (a Graham BLNE) that I talked him into (many years ago now) and he absolutely loves it (and he does allright with it...perhaps more good than great). I've had several 20-gauge guns over the years and while I loved how they looked and carried, I didn't like their lethality on game. Now...that's probably all on me (and my many failures as a shotgunner), but no-matter as I am primarily interested in two things when I go afield...filling my bag when hunting and then achieving only "clean kills". I like everything about a good day afield (& look-forward to it all winter and summer long) but...there must be a reasonable chance at success (at least as I define it). A good 12 (& possibly an exceptional 16) seems to better serve those ends for me.

12boreman: I've never had the luxury of shooting or hunting a "fine" short 10, so I'm still open there to argument. I've seen several over the years that I was quite impressed with, but I've never gone further than that with one. The ammo challenges are even greater than the 16-gauge issues I mentioned earlier here and clearly limit them for the vast cross-section of gun folks.

KY John: I own and use archaic guns as well, and for exactly the reasons you articulated earlier here so-adroitly. They are not "efficient" in any modern sense, but they are "art" to my eyes and I love how they feel in my hands.

Do we consider $15,500.00 an appropriate price for this Sauer, refinished or high condition original?

I have purchased only one gun from Osprey but it was an enjoyable experience. I saw the ad for a pretty rare 1872 gun, contacted them and we exchanged correspondence for several days about the gun and then about the price. It was a rare (and offbeat) gun in supposedly mint condition and priced accordingly. The price was kind of hard to pin down due to nature of the gun. Some people may have been unsatisfied, but to each his own. I finally got the gun for about 20% off the listing. Delivery was quick and I was completely happy with the purchase. I have shown it to several really knowledgeable collectors and all were amazed at the condition of the untouched gun.

That said, the person was not the one listed in the OP. I don't recall the gentleman I worked with, but it was certainly not the above individual. At the time time I was told there were a few individuals working there. It may unfortunately have been the luck of the draw.

I looked at both the listings and, to be honest, I would never had considered either one at the prices listed. Not my focus, but I do own several Sauers and Daly's and am basing my statement on my own shopping and buying experiences. Again, to each his own.

NM.

I’m sorry for your experience.

It’s not clear to me. Did he refund your money?

Absolutely laughable Ed.

Just out of curiosity, what are your reasons for thinking it is inappropriate and should be censored?

I try to let shooters try my old guns as well, both the hammer guns and a few side locks as well. They all appreciate it and are usually surprised how light the guns are compared to their O/U and semi-autos. I've even managed to get some of them to either buy a SxS or drag them out from the back of their safes, although none of them have gone far enough down the path to the pre 1900 SxS's like I and the others here have.

That's what I'd like to know.🤨 You said it was brought to your attention. Did someone tell you about it?

Feel the noose tightening ed?

The thing I find most surprising is how willing a dealer is to soil their reputation
or throw away a long time business relationship for a few bucks in their pocket today.

"The Nutmeg State". An interesting historical anecdote. Oh well, if the shoe fits...

That one is likely worth having it looked over by someone who knows how to evaluate vintage British sporting arms. Yes, his pictures suck and he does not seem to be very informed, but the gun itself looks worthy of more investigation.

You can copy and paste the original textl in your browser or use this link.

Jpsauer

Ken

no pictures

John
Arrieta

Sorry to hear this. Pretty brazen.

I want to know who refinished the gun ...

OWD

I think it is good to hear this. I might see him at a gun show. But, let's hear the whole story. I think that he has a right to tell it.

nothing to see

No Ed, this should stay up. It is honest information about a clearly deceptive listing. It can be clearly documented that gun was refinished and that was not in the description or answered correctly when a direct question was asked to the dealer. And any dealer who has been dealing in high grade guns as long as he has knows. He may decide to ignore or pretend but he knows. Would be interesting to know who the winning bidder was. I am not saying this dealer was the auction buyer but who knows.

I do know high end dealers, who would have very little problem showing you if a gun has been restored. If the blue under the fore end is even in color with the rest I think refinish. Wear in hidden places is expected. If the stock and metal gun has zero dents, nicks or scratches after 50-100 years I think refinish. If edges are not crisp I think refinish. If it looks too good then I become much more careful. Still this is a beautiful gun and one I would be happy to own and shoot. Guns are just not investments, they are to be used and enjoyed in my lifetime.

Eightbore, you can cut and paste the line for a quick search. Came right up for me that way.

this thread is inappropriate and should be taken down...

I asked for pictures of the bottom of the barrels. All I got was a picture of the tip of the ramrod that I had already seen. I give up. He is not going to give me what I asked for. He is not taking new pictures. He is rerunning pictures he has already shown. He is selling a drilling that he describes as a 16 gauge with no mention of the rifle barrel. I don't think he is someone I would like to deal with.