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Sidelock
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And a bit more info to ponder. The extent of change in the Arctic polar ice was not recorded prior to the mid 1970's or so. Before that there is no consistent data. Roughly 50 years? That is not even a thousandth of a blink in time. Prior we simply don't know how many times, if any, the passage could have been made. I would bet the U.S. Navy and the U.S. Air Force knows, post WWII but hey, who would ask them? Further, would they tell?
Chief
Last edited by ChiefAmungum; 03/22/24 06:04 PM.
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Hey!! Have a great day!!
Last edited by Jimmy W; 03/26/24 07:26 AM.
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Sidelock
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There you go, Ted. Here is your exact same picture taken of the North Pole IN THE SUMMERTIME. This is when the north pole is facing the sun. Do you see all those empty spaces on this chart that are filled in with ice on your chart? That is because the sun melts the ice in the summertime, which causes the permafrost BELOW THE SURFACE to melt. This is why you see movies of the glaciers falling into the ocean. Because the glaciers can no longer be supported and they fall into the ocean. And the warmer water below melts them. This is irreversible. And maybe in the next ten years or so the north pole will probably be ice-free IN THE SUMMER MONTHS. The dangerous fact is that now the south pole has started doing the same thing. The permafrost below Antarctica has begun to melt, too. You are probably also unaware that insurance companies like Allstate, State Farm and Progressive have started cancelling insurance on properties in Florida that are within two miles of the ocean because they are considered to be high risk areas because they will flood. St. Petersburg, Florida is already experiencing what are called, "sunny day flooding" where the city floods during a sunny day due to high tides, because the ocean has already started to rise just the tiny bit that it has. So, was this prediction made by the same brain trust that produced this one? This used to be at Glacier National Park, the sign is gone but the glaciers are still there. People make predictions all the time. But don't worry- they're only about ten- fifteen years or so off. Not too bad of a prediction..............Ol' Lefty
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Sidelock
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Hi Jimmy, may I suggest some reading. Roald Amundsen's complete sailing of the northwest passage, 1903-1906. Looking at the maps above that journey would not be possible in July 2023. Still frozen. More Ice may melt in August and should open up more. My point is that the polar cap shrinks and expands every year. Glaciers collapse into the sea every year, creating icebergs. There is no perma frost under the Arctic polar ice cap as it is not a land mass. I would be much more concerned if the passage remained open to viable shipping. And yes I am aware that countries have laid claim to it for just that reason. Hedging their bets it seems.
My point is that the Northwest Passage has been sailed at least twice in not so recent (to us) history. Definitely before the widespread use of fossil fuels and industrial growth.
I am certainly not a climate change denier, that would be faulty logic as the climate is constantly changing as with everything else. I am sceptical that we are the sole cause of that change.
Chief I believe I already pointed out the fact that you just stated. But I'll read that. Thanks.
Last edited by Jimmy W; 03/26/24 07:28 AM.
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You may want to recheck that volcano data, just sayin'. And then there is differing amounts of solar radiation to consider as well as instability in the earth's orbit and rotation. These are well documented to have an effect on climate. Is there a correlation? I don't know. I do find it plausible, even likely.
I wouldn't rely on much a politician or entertainer says R, D or I. There is debate among scientists. A lot of speculation and theory. Great! That's what is supposed to happen. I'd like to say wait and see the outcome since by hook or by crook we will have to do something, and we will, surely.
A bit of trivia about Mr. Gore, always a man with a cause. Back in the late 1970's early 1980's I remember he and his wife crusading against the dangerous and evil effects on society of certain music. I think the internet has had some negative impact also?
Chief
Last edited by ChiefAmungum; 03/23/24 06:45 AM.
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If you watch Al Gore's movie that he made in 2005, he tells of his trip in a submarine under the North Pole when he was Vice President. And he shows his picture taken there. He spoke about how much easier it was then for a submarine to push up through the ice because it had melted so much even then. I believe he said that the place where his submarine that he was on only had to push up through only about three feet of ice. And the navy personnel commented how much thicker it had been in the past. I also remember Al Gore being on the David Letterman show years ago when he was Vice President and the subject of the North Pole came up. And Al Gore mentioned something about the fact that he had been to the North Pole and didn't make much of the fact that it was warmer there. And Letterman started freaking out saying, For gosh sakes there are puddles on the north pole from what I hear. So, it was a big deal even that short of a time ago that it was warm enough to have puddles of water on the north pole................ If you watch PBS and people who travel to Alaska and the permafrost has melted there so badly that huge bubbles of methane gas are coming to the top of the soil. People drill a small hole in the ice and taking a lighter and light the methane gas and it explodes. So, this also adds to the CO2 levels in the earth's atmosphere............ If you check, in Florida now, insurance companies, Allstate, State Farm, Progressive and others are stopping their coverage of properties, because of the risk of the rising ocean and flooding. I believe I recently read that Progressive dropped 86,000 properties in Florida because they were a high risk. So the problems have already become endless that people don't realize.............. Ted Cruz is finally realizing the dangers. He argued for years that Global warming was a hoax. A hurricane or two changed his mind and now his is begging for federal money to reinforce the beaches in Texas for upcoming high water. So, the problems will just keep on comin'...............Ol' Lefty Our best modeling going forward, looks to be the correlation between Jimmy's wifi signal and rising oceans of anecdotes. I learned recently that if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle, but we know that's not true. All we need is a series of grants to create gender studies phd programs. Who need shrimp on a petroleum powered, electric treadmill, when someone took a lighter to a fart, on the internet?
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There you go, Ted. Here is your exact same picture taken of the North Pole IN THE SUMMERTIME. This is when the north pole is facing the sun. Do you see all those empty spaces on this chart that are filled in with ice on your chart? That is because the sun melts the ice in the summertime, which causes the permafrost BELOW THE SURFACE to melt. This is why you see movies of the glaciers falling into the ocean. Because the glaciers can no longer be supported and they fall into the ocean. And the warmer water below melts them. This is irreversible. And maybe in the next ten years or so the north pole will probably be ice-free IN THE SUMMER MONTHS. The dangerous fact is that now the south pole has started doing the same thing. The permafrost below Antarctica has begun to melt, too. You are probably also unaware that insurance companies like Allstate, State Farm and Progressive have started cancelling insurance on properties in Florida that are within two miles of the ocean because they are considered to be high risk areas because they will flood. St. Petersburg, Florida is already experiencing what are called, "sunny day flooding" where the city floods during a sunny day due to high tides, because the ocean has already started to rise just the tiny bit that it has. So, you are documenting for us that ice melts in the summer, and reforms in the winter? And, that there are risks to living on the coast? Good God, who knew? Best, Ted
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Sidelock
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If you watch Al Gore's movie that he made in 2005, he tells of his trip in a submarine under the North Pole when he was Vice President. And he shows his picture taken there. He spoke about how much easier it was then for a submarine to push up through the ice because it had melted so much even then. I believe he said that the place where his submarine that he was on only had to push up through only about three feet of ice. And the navy personnel commented how much thicker it had been in the past. I also remember Al Gore being on the David Letterman show years ago when he was Vice President and the subject of the North Pole came up. And Al Gore mentioned something about the fact that he had been to the North Pole and didn't make much of the fact that it was warmer there. And Letterman started freaking out saying, For gosh sakes there are puddles on the north pole from what I hear. So, it was a big deal even that short of a time ago that it was warm enough to have puddles of water on the north pole................ If you watch PBS and people who travel to Alaska and the permafrost has melted there so badly that huge bubbles of methane gas are coming to the top of the soil. People drill a small hole in the ice and taking a lighter and light the methane gas and it explodes. So, this also adds to the CO2 levels in the earth's atmosphere............ If you check, in Florida now, insurance companies, Allstate, State Farm, Progressive and others are stopping their coverage of properties, because of the risk of the rising ocean and flooding. I believe I recently read that Progressive dropped 86,000 properties in Florida because they were a high risk. So the problems have already become endless that people don't realize.............. Ted Cruz is finally realizing the dangers. He argued for years that Global warming was a hoax. A hurricane or two changed his mind and now his is begging for federal money to reinforce the beaches in Texas for upcoming high water. So, the problems will just keep on comin'...............Ol' Lefty Our best modeling going forward, looks to be the correlation between Jimmy's wifi signal and rising oceans of anecdotes. I learned recently that if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle, but we know that's not true. All we need is a series of grants to create gender studies phd programs. Who need shrimp on a petroleum powered, electric treadmill, when someone took a lighter to a fart, on the internet? Tsk. Tsk..............Ol' Lefty
Last edited by Jimmy W; 03/29/24 10:07 PM.
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Well, face it Chief, Google has spoken.
Best, Ted I recall when Ted spoke, he was predicting $450/barrel oil. We are still waiting on that Ted. Where is it? Any more Teddie predictions that you want to make?
_________ BrentD, (Professor - just for Stan)
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Jimmy W |
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