doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com OT: "The War" series by Ken Burns on Public TV

What a lot of great discussion. I found the series some what of a re-hash of old video clips I had seen before, but the personalization of it from all sides in specific communities was really the point. It was great and just what you'd expect from Burns. It was just super for me, and brought back old memories of my adolescent wonderment at the roles of my father and his friends from the little North Dakota community in which I grew up. WWII was fresh still when I was in grade school in the 50's. Dad, my hero, was a glider pilot. His cousin was married to a Bataan Death March survivor (I began to understand him better after the time he found my brothers and I had acquired a motorcycle in 1964. He had been excited about it but once he saw it was Japanese he shrunk from it speechless, downright physically ill. I'll never forget the look on his face.) The neighbor was a Bronze Star-winning tank driver, some had been in the Pacific with dirty fighting, my friend's mother was a Belgian war bride, the guy who ran the gas station was a DFC winning gunner in B-17's who could never quite drink it all away, my friend in college - his dad flew the Polesti raids, Dad's partner in his aerial crop spraying business was a P-39 and P-38 pilot in the Pacific, the guy in the next town flew B-17's and never had the heart to fly again, Dad's friend, for whom I worked, was in the Navy, and one of the two NoDaks Pearl Harbor survivors. There were a thousand local stories, and somehow, though no one really seemed to talk directly about it, we all heard plenty. (It was so different with the local Korean war vets, and later with my generation of Vietnam Vets, yet those people went through the same hell, but with different public support.) I heard a lot about my Dad's adventures from my uncle. That's how it went. Everybody, and I'm not talking only about soldiers, but the parents and siblings - everybody, contributed some way and suffered some hardship, some more than others. Most of the guys lost their youth years, yet many got experiences and education they otherwise wouldn't have, and it changed them forever, which only became clear to some of us later, when we looked at our veterans as regular human survivors of the odds, as opposed to the heroes we wanted as kids. Later in the real working world I found myself side-by-side (SxS!) in the research department of a major corporation with a simple straightforward guy who wore a black bow-tie every day, who happened to relate one day, after he heard me talk about my flying, that he had been a B-29 instructor pilot He wangled himself a combat assignment finally, and arrived at Tinian the day before Tibbets flew out to Hiroshima. You'd never have guessed it. It goes on and on.....regular US citizens in a nation-defining moment. There were others....One co-worker at the same company was a Jewish Pole (his family kept the Jewish part secret somehow) born in a work camp in Russia (fortuantely Russia rather than Germany) in 1940 and brought back by the Russians to re-populate Poland in 1946. One of the lucky ones. I eventually met both his parents, who, like he and his wife, finally emigrated here in the mid 70's, with God knows what kind of influence.

The series was great. PeteM's reaction/experience seemed much like my own. Thanks PeteM. Sorry for the ramble, but the point is history was all around us as we baby-boomers grew up. Ken Burns didn't intend to cover everything and no one could. He does a marvelous job of making us see and understand the human condition. I don't want our kids to forget what was done, what is still around them, and what was necessary all these years ago, and even since then, regardless of how bad some actions have turned out. This is a great country. I have traveled internationally a lot for work in the last 25 years, and the USA is really different -- not perfect, but honestly quite a much preferred place by almost all on earth who experience it. I hope we can keep it that way. War isn't the way, but we simply have to recognize our heritage and what it means to be a nation -- that some things are worth the sacrifice. Frankly, it would be very difficult for most Americans to tolerate the lifestyle available to the average person in any other place. Best Wishes.

Nobody is pro-war - but many people understand, as adults, that sometimes wars are necessary.

I guess that famous movie line of Georgie Patton's was just showbiz?

jack

And Bob, I don't think you've met the sort of lifer for whom war means fast promotion.

jack

I'm a retired US Army officer Jack........in over 27 years of active duty I've met 'em all! 99.99% are outstanding young men and women dedicated to the service of their fellow citizens and their way of life. War always accelerates promotion for everyone.

Jack, you should take that "lifer" word and park it in the same trash can as the N word before you say it front of the wrong guy. That was a term the drug abusers coined to denigrate the career NCOs not in favor of their recreational stupor - the very NCOs who would keep them alive in a scrape. Very offensive!!

"...regular US citizens in a nation-defining moment."

I think that's what Burns was getting at: millions of ordinary men and women from rural towns and villages and city neighbourhoods who saw their duty and did it.

His civil war and jazz series were better and easier to make. The Second World War was a different beast altogether in scale and complexity."

Ken Burns' Civil War and Jazz TV documentary series were easy to make because no one else had done them yet; they were bright, new, and stood alone. "The War" has to stand against half a century of WWII documentaries, many of which have been superb. By comparison, "The War" has little new to offer, beyond some PC padding.

Agree, jack, but could you be specific about the PC padding (other than dedication and sacrifice), please?

Well, Jerry, I'm sorry for pushing your buttons. I was an army NCO and although I didn't "keep them alive in a scrape" with superior bravery and warcraft, I kept a number of scag freaks awake long enuf to get them to detox. As to my choice of the offensive word, I admit to being influenced by the army and the war I was in--including its slang. I suspect that the greatest generation also experienced a good deal of friction between regulars and the floodtide of draftees. I will hide the word away for your sake. I'm also sorry that the military life I had to live isn't up to your standards.

jack