doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Proof Mark Help

This is a 16 gauge Fabrique National D'Armes De Guerre De Herstal hammer gun. Can anyone tell me anything about the proof marks? Is it proofed for 3ton loads? Thanks, Dave Miles

The proof marks of Belgium can be found in Gun Digest 32ed of 1978. I don't see chamber length in mm on this ex "Kolhoznik". Assuming it can pass prosmith mechanical inspection I would try low pressure loads from RST or Polywad with string und tire in this ole Betsy first.
PS. 3tons/sq.inch proof is found on many old English guns with 65mm chambers.

Dave: here are the flats from a pre-1924 Auguste Lebeau Fabriqué in Liege



Spangled ELG in a crowned oval: acceptance post 1893. Perron: inspection post 1853. EL in cursive letters: provisional test post 1852. J and S spangled: controller's marks post 1877. 12 C in a rhombus on point: gauge - used 1898 to 1924. Stylized lion over PV: smokeless powder proof - used 1898 to 1968. D = 65/20.6: length of the chamber in mm and diameter in mm after the smokeless powder proof - Used 1892 to 1924. 1K 454.7: weight of the barrel; 1.4547 Kg = 3.2 lb. Used of 1892 to 1924.

Odd your's does not have the chamber length and diameter stamp nor the barrel weight stamp. It almost looks like marks have been ground off from the flat? The 16.7 mm is a left barrel bore constriction to 0.657", the right bore is apparently cylinder.
Basically those guns were designed for 1 oz loads at 1200 fps.

This is a post-1924 Dumoulin Lambert without the chamber stamp, but also without the 16 over C in a rhombus. It does, however, have the date letter, which I don't see on your gun.



Can you get a close up of the stamps on the barrels just before the flats, maybe a maker's mark? I do see what looks like a solitary 'L'.

Drew, the gun has 30" barrels, choked cyl. and impcyl.
When I get the gun in hand, I can post better pictures.
That is all I have for now. Thanks.

Please do Dave. We've got a 'Belgian Maker's and Proof Marks' album now
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery.fcgi?p=999&gid=17575181

What to stay away from:
Eley Grand Prix 26.5gm V2m 390m/s P 536bar
Eley VIP 28gm V2m 390m/s P 560bar
Hull 'Three Crowns' fibre wad 26.6gm V2m 370m/s P 577
" " Gualandi plastic wad V2m 380m/s P 614bar
Viri 28gm V2m 385m/s P 650bar
These are excellent CIP rated loads, but you can't use them.
You need to use 2&1/2" trainer weaklings from RST or Polywad.

Revdocdrew/Dave;
I may be totally awash on this but it is my understanding from the various articles on proof that the chamber dimensions & bbl wt were only required to be stamped on guns bearing the "Voluntary" smokeless proof, prior to 1924. This gun was obviously proofed prior to 1924 & does not show the nitro proof mark. The marks would thus appear to be correct for the era.

Thanks Miller! Pete M should also add his expertise shortly.

Miller is always correct with these.

Pete

The peasant grade/nobility grade ratio is quite LARGE for this manufacturer.