doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Wm. Moore & Grey

Beautiful gun. It is worth a good bit more than $450. Quite a bit more.

Very good-looking gun, from a well-respected maker. Happy hunting!

I can�t comment on US values, but up here a good British boxlock can usually fetch $1200-2000. The estimate you were given seems awfully low.

That was a low ball value. But you need to understand many dealers are lost once you leave their area of interest. A dealer in rifles and handguns may have almost no real knowledge in doubles in general and British doubles at all. So when asked they pull a number out of their....well you know where. Two real numbers in life. What would they give you cash and what would they charge you if they owned it. That�s why so many of us watch auction sales to see what real number guns are bringing. Right now many doubles are very soft but quality always sells.

You need to order some RST ammo and enjoy that gun. Use proper ammo, not too heavy factory American ammo. It looks like it should be a real pleasure to shoot.

Looks like a pretty nice $450 gun to me...Geo

Yeah, I know how gun dealers work, I�ve traded and bought/sold a lot over the years and have tended to avoid them when possible.

This particular dealer has a brick-and-mortar store and a significant presence online; they specialize in �classic� arms and have some pretty neat stuff in their store (including some L.C. Smiths). I talked to one friendly fellow there when I was in the area a few weeks ago who seemed very knowledgeable about my gun, and from looking at the pics I had at the time estimated a value of as much as $2500-$3500. I thought that was way too high, and some of the defects in the gun didn�t show in those pics.

So, I took the gun back to that shop this week. That fellow wasn�t there, but another guy looked at it, contradicted my research as to its vintage, talked about all of the defects, dismissed the gunmaker, and gave me a value of $450. The guys there the second time were not as friendly; perhaps I smelled bad or something.

They also made a laughably low offer on two pistols I had for sale/trade. Laughably low even for a dealer; they offered me $450 for the pair, and I immediately went across town to a different dealer and got $750.

Honestly, I thought when I bought the Moore&Grey that the value was probably in the $1000-$1500 arena.

Am I correct that this gun was made between 1904-1917?

After the original proof, both bores have been enlarged by around.010". This would have been prior to the reproof, so if they still measure the .719 & .729 respectfully they would still be in proof.

The British 3-ton proof is equivalent to about a 9,000 PSI as measured by Piezo Electric crystals, not LUP. US shells are loaded to SAAMI Specs which can go up to 10,500 PSI in 12 gauge, thus the warning about off the shelf US shells. Nice looking gun & appears in reasonable condition. Treat it nice & it will give you many years of enjoyment. Certainly that $450.00 is not even in the Ball Park.

I would have to dig out my proof books to be positive, but pretty certain the original proof was under the 1904 act, just not sure of the ending date on it.

So what is the ballpark?

For dating, I was going by some info on the history of Wm. Moore, etc. that I had found on this forum. Based on the address and trade name, 1904-1917 were the dates I came up with.

I'm probably wrong, but it never kept me from embarrassing myself



"Choke" indicates muzzle constriction > .008"

The chamber length (2 1/2"), shot charge (1 1/8 oz.) and 12 over C in the diamond are 1925-1954.
1925 - 1954 the 2 1/2� & 2 5/8� 12g maximum service load was reduced to 3 Dr. Eq. with 1 1/8 oz. shot with a mean pressure of 3 1/4 tons by LUP = 9,800 psi by Burrard�s conversion.

'3 tons per sq. inch maximum' and 12 in a diamond indicate 1954-1989.
As Miller said, under the 1954 Rules of Proof �Highest Mean Service Pressure� equivalent transducer values as converted from LUP by Burrard�s formula: 3 tons = 8,960 psi = 618 BAR

The original R bore (13) was .710"-.718" and when reproved was .729"
The original L bore (14/1) was .701" - .709", and when reproved was .719"

interesting way of stamping "PSI"

I still can�t manage to figure out how to properly post pics, all the pic hosting services I�ve tried provide https not http links, so that may be the problem.

Nevertheless, here are some more pics, some of which show the defects/wear/marred screw heads, etc. a little more clearly:

[img]https://ibb.co/q5yPLYs https://ibb.co/zGSyQ1R https://ibb.co/64JMpFF https://ibb.co/ccD2mbJ https://ibb.co/VvR6R9S https://ibb.co/7JwxCBF https://ibb.co/86Ydhvs https://ibb.co/Hg0yWfj[/img]