doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Strange Proof marks on a Saint-Etienne 16 ga.

Thought it might be listed here?

https://www.scribd.com/document/160823699/Memorial-des-poudres-et-salpetres-tome-6-1893-France

Interesting M/71 is listed:

M/71 Normal - Pulver. Ancienne poudre noire r�glementaire de l'infanterie allenmadne(plus de 4000 grains au gramme)

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I'd say that mark is almost certainly a poorly stamped PM. That was one of the 5 varieties of smokeless accepted for proof loads prior to 1914. After that, only PT.

Raimey, allenmadne? Maybe "allemagne"? German black powder.

Mr. Brown, yes a typo or actually an error in the manner in which I extracted it. allemande....

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

This from PassionlaChase.fr:

alors le poin�on F couronn� qui correspond � l'�preuve ordinaire � la poudre noire des fusils finis appara�t bien le 30 juillet 1897.

Ok, the F with crown stamp corresponds to ordinary black powder proof for long guns finished after 30 July 1897.

Les poin�ons PJ couronn� (�preuve � la poudre J des fusils finis) et PS couronn� (�preuve � la poudre S des fusils finis) apparaissent bien en 1896. En revanche, le poin�on PM couronn� (�preuve � la poudre M des fusils finis) apparait en 1898.

the PJ crowned stamp (proof for J powder in finished long guns) and PS crowned (proof for S powder in finished long guns) seems to be 1896. On the other hand the stamp PM crowned (proof for M powder in finished long guns) arrived in 1898.

Et tu as raison, le poin�on PT couronn� (�preuve � la poudre T des fusils finis) n'apparait qu'en 1900. Les poin�ons simples S, J et M ne concernent pas le banc d'�preuve de St Etienne.

And you are right, the PT crowned stamp (proof for T powder in fiinished long guns) did not appear until 1900. The simple stamps S,J,M were not part of the St. Etienne proof house.

On semble deviner sur ce fusil le poin�on d'�preuve des canons�instaur� d'apr�s les d�cisions des 20 ao�t et 6 septembre 1879 pour les armes de fabrication locale (armoiries de St-Etienne suivies de ST ETIENNE), ce qui est tout � fait normal sur une arme sortie avant 1900 et � poudre noire. Le 8 novembre 1901 apparait le m�me poin�on sur lequel sont rajout�es les lettres NA entre les armoiries et ST ETIENNE.

And this from a previous post by Wildcattle (betail enlisse):

The J and S powders were early and released in the early 1890s.



"Powder J" was released on 7/1/1892.
Another post claims that J Powder arrived 30 March 1896.



"Poudre M" was released in 1897, - (from this example I think Larry's right about it those other two being poor stamps)



"Poudre T" on 12/29/1899.

From Wirnsberger, French proof powders were J, S, M, R and T.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Correct . . . prior to 1914. After that, only T.