|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
|
30
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums10
Topics38,574
Posts546,508
Members14,424
| |
Most Online1,344
Apr 29th, 2024
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021 |
Larry
If LeBeau died in 1896 - this would have to have been a late gun or it was not made by LeBeau himself? From Igor Robertovich Karklinsh's research http://shotguncollector.com/2016/03/28/lebeau-courally-between-truth-and-fiction/ it follows that "August Lebeau, the greatest maker of Liege, maker to Emperors" was a myth created by Ferdinand Courally to promote his business. (It's not that August Lebeau never existed or was a bad gunmaker, but he was likely "one of", and not "the"). Kind of confused over objections to this statement. No question he was a great gunmaker but I question was he not one of a few producing guns at that level in Belgium which is exactly what was said?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 931
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 931 |
Let me paraphrase the question.
What evidence is there exactly that Auguste Lebeau was a star gunmaker, the best or one of the very best in Liege?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 297 Likes: 3
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 297 Likes: 3 |
Alexsey, this is a very good question, for me he was not better then other Liège artisans, my personal opinion is that the succes of Lebeau is due that your Tsaar was a client, and his picture with a Lebeau on his knees is know all over the world.
Cheers, Marc.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021 |
The Russian Tsar as a repeat customer is one indication.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
 LeBeau  Ferdinand VII of Spain  Tsar of Russia I don't have a picture for the King of Belgium, but he did have several LeBeau guns. Pete
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 931
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 931 |
But that's precisely Igor's point!
- the Tsar's guns were ordered circa 1898,
- the Kaiser's gun dates to 1910
- the king of Spain's guns date to circa 1900
All their guns were made by Courally, after - sometimes, well after - Auguste Lebeau's death!
To reiterate another Igor's point: all we know about Auguste Lebeau's greatness comes from Courally's advertising copy.
(or was printed after Courally's ad campaings and could be influenced by them)
Is there evidence that Auguste Lebeau was one of the best makers in Liege that pre-dates Courally's involvement?
Last edited by Humpty Dumpty; 04/06/16 09:54 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021 |
Good point. I don't have an answer for you. Definition of 'Best' gun or 'Best' gunmaker is always going to be subjective.
I have my own opinions on what a 'Best' gun or a 'Best' gunmaker is but those are my opinions only.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021 |
Same argument as is now being presented about the Hawken rifle during the exploration of western America. Review of the actual diaries and journals of the explorers of that region never mentioned the superiority of the Hawken rifle over other builders. It was only after this period in the 1880's and 1890's that praise is recorded, whereas contemporary accounts praise other builders.
In 1845 during the John C. Fremont expedition, for example, rifles built by Joseph Cooper of New York were given away as prizes to the best shots of the expedition over Hawken rifles that were also purchased for the expedition. There is also high praise given in contemporary accounts of the rifles built by Joseph Manton or Dickson & Gilmore as well as other makers, whereas, again, no such contemporary praise can be found specifically mentioning the Hawken rifle.
It seems we have possibly the same or a much more complicated situation here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 224 Likes: 49
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 224 Likes: 49 |
1. If Auguste Lebeau was a great gunmaker, could you support this claim with hard evidence, e.g. a gun made in his shop before 1896 2. All "Royal guns" were made by Ferdinand Courally's company, and Auguste Lebeau had nothing to do with them, as he died in 1896. 3. Auguste Lebeau worked with his brother Jules, it's their "Lebeau Brothers" partnership that won medals at international exhibitions and made guns to Great Prince Mikhail Romanoff. Why isn't Jules Lebeau known as a great gunmaker? I think everything will fall into place if you can answer these questions. Igor www.shotguncollector.com
|
|
|
|
|
