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Forums10
Topics38,572
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021 |
Look at that standing breech and how thick the corrosion is around the fences and Rockdoc is worried about buggered screws?
Someone took one of the finest shotguns built on this planet and turned it into tomato stake.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,826 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,826 Likes: 12 |
It looks like a fine shooter. Look down the barrels -if you can't see light shinning through the sides it's ok. 65 grs of 3F and 1oz of shot works just fine [ with fiber wads ]. It's your gun - do whatever you want to it: that's the fun of buying old guns. And yes, laminated Damascus is the strongest of all the Damascus steels.
Last edited by Paul Harm; 01/23/16 02:11 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,859
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,859 |
Look at that action and how thick the corrosion is around the fences and Rockdoc is worried about buggered screws?
Someone took one of the finest shotguns built on this planet and turned it into tomato stake. It's not untypical to have heavy corrosion around a ML's fences (and percussion nipples), that's where the corrosive detritus from the percussion caps is deposited when shooting. It's not something that'll necessarily make the gun unsafe. Interesting how my comment about buggered screws, taken out of a generic freshening-up-your-gun write-up I did 3 years ago, would be focused on here. And God forbid someone would want to turn it from a tomato stake back into a useable shooter again. Holy Mary Mother of God, may the saint's preserve us! Steve
Approach life like you do a yellow light - RUN IT! (Gail T.)
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
I should have it fully checked out by someone who understands what they are looking at and go with their guidance. It may not be a write off. I see that the barrels have the Scott Trade Mark. Post the serial number and I can year date it for you. Lagopus..... If someone can't tell what they are looking at from the pictures posted they might need to get their eyes checked.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,433 Likes: 316
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,433 Likes: 316 |
Just to clarify, "best" quality English c. 1830s-1840s MLs usually had Stub Twist. 1850s MLs usually had Laminated Steel or (less commonly) "English 2 Stripe" crolle Damascus. That Laminated Steel barrel material is however not the "3-Rod English Best Laminated Steel" that was the winner of the Birmingham Proof House Test Trial reported in 1891 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dnRL...ref=2&pli=1 More information here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1__gn...ref=2&pli=1 It should be noted that both the English and esp. the Belgians also referred to Twist barrels as "Laminated Steel". Unfortunately, I did not have any Laminated Steel samples to include in the hopefully soon to be published tensile testing performed by METL in 2014, nor could I find any published or advertised tensile strength reports thereof.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 603
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 603 |
If the bores scrub up ok, the wall thicknesses are sufficient, the barrels ring; if the locks engage positively and crisply at half and full cock, and the triggers release the hammers cleanly; if the stock is solid and sound, I'd be happy shooting it. Muzzles can be rod-worn to look paper thin but be fine just inches further down; fences can be quite badly corroded from priming compounds without affecting safety; platinum vent plugs were often peened shut by original owners who wanted more energy behind the charge, not venting out the side. Look at that action and how thick the corrosion is around the fences and Rockdoc is worried about buggered screws?
Someone took one of the finest shotguns built on this planet and turned it into tomato stake. One of the finest guns ever built?! I don't think so; good quality gun by a respected maker, but hardly one of the finest. Tomato stake? Pending some actual in-hand examination with appropriate tools by someone who actually knows what they're looking at, maybe a long way from it yet.
Last edited by cadet; 01/23/16 06:35 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021 |
If the bores scrub up ok, the wall thicknesses are sufficient, the barrels ring; if the locks engage positively and crisply at half and full cock, and the triggers release the hammers cleanly; if the stock is solid and sound, I'd be happy shooting it. Muzzles can be rod-worn to look paper thin but be fine just inches further down; fences can be quite badly corroded from priming compounds without affecting safety; platinum vent plugs were often peened shut by original owners who wanted more energy behind the charge, not venting out the side. Look at that action and how thick the corrosion is around the fences and Rockdoc is worried about buggered screws?
Someone took one of the finest shotguns built on this planet and turned it into tomato stake. One of the finest guns ever built?! I don't think so; good quality gun by a respected maker, but hardly one of the finest. Tomato stake? Pending some actual in-hand examination with appropriate tools by someone who actually knows what they're looking at, maybe a long way from it yet. A W. & C. Scott & Sons ONLY a respectable maker? You better think again but longer and harder this time.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 603
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 603 |
Yes, W&C Scott is a respected - even renowned - maker, and while they were capable of making guns that would stand with any, there were more esteemed firms; nor is that gun - to reiterate (perhaps I was unclear?) - "one of the finest shotguns built on this planet" or even one of their finest; nor is it one of their plainest, or yet a tomato stake. Some hyperbole, perhaps? I don't need to think again, thankyou. Edit: I just took a couple of photos to illustrate. Condition aside, can you see a difference in quality?   Apologies to Bill for taking it off track. It's a grand old gun, and probably perfectly shootable.
Last edited by cadet; 01/23/16 11:24 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Cadet so what are you trying to show us ? In your photo I see a gun that hasn't been abused, misused and has been taken care of. What I don't see is a gun of quality higher than a W & C Scott. Fact is your hammers are quite lacking one is out of round and both lack nipple venting to the front. Are they replacements ? Are your breach plugs vented or is it a latter cheaper version than the Scott that wasn't vented ? Pardon my English...but If you can't see the bloody difference in abuse between the two you need to get your blooming vision checked.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 603
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 603 |
I know you're a bit of a Scott fanboi, and I have a Scott or two in my cabinet too, but they built guns of many grades, quite a few better than this, and there were better makers.
You and I can both see the difference in condition, but you can not discern a difference in quality? On the Scott, I can see file marks all over the face where the breech hooks in. I can see a difference in coverage and fineness of engraving.
To answer your questions: the platinum plugs in mine are vented. As to hammers: on mine, one is a replacement, but both are designed not to vent, but shaped "out of round" (actually, they're not, just a perspective thing with a mismatched hammer, but whatevs...) to closely enclose the nipples. Not sure how common that was; it might be a fashion, or an era, or peculiar to that maker...
Last edited by cadet; 01/24/16 05:43 AM.
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