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Forums10
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,658 Likes: 77
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,658 Likes: 77 |
I have to agree and add my two cents. The last increase killed the Spanish gun market I believe. I have owned several Spanish guns, Grulla (which I had several made for me), Arietta, AYA and Garbi over the years. All were nice guns, some better than others. I can remember when an AYA #2 was around 3K. Now it is up to over 5K and if you want longer barrels that is an increase in price. If I am going to pay close to 10K for a side by side I would prefer a English sidelock.
Mike Proctor
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,521 Likes: 20
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,521 Likes: 20 |
One of the things that the Spanish makers have working against them is that the price on used Spanish doubles has not been keeping up with the price on new ones. If you want $6-8,000 (or more) for a new double, it helps if the used price on the same model is 70% or so of the price new. In the case of Spanish guns, it seems to be more in the 40-50% range for guns in quite high condition. Most buyers will buy the used gun and tweak it to fit.
I say this having just bought a new AYA 4/53 28 gauge, which I got at a very good price in Cabelas' Hamburg, PA store. Had it not been deeply discounted, I'd have moved on, but the price I paid seems to be about 25% more than similar quality used ones sell for and about 1/2 of what the Bournbrook models (which appear to be finished quite similarly to mine, including the engraving pattern, save for the action on mine not being "round") being imported by M.W. Reynolds. A $3,000-3,500 new Spanish boxlock is reasonable. The same gun at $6,500 is going to sit a long time on a dealer's shelf.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,498 Likes: 84
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,498 Likes: 84 |
Great comments by all, you are are really helping out here, loved to other folks comments too.
I will send these comments and ideas to Spain
Best and looking forward to hearing more!
John Boyd Quality Arms
John Boyd Quality Arms Inc Houston, TX 713-818-2971
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,224 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,224 Likes: 3 |
Great thread; lots of truths here. Depressing truths, but truth is what it is.
And I agree that it is mendacious to call the last six years anything but a depression. Just look at it from the point of view of those who lost everything and never recovered.
Forget the causes, we can argue about that until the cows come home (if the repo man hasn't got 'em!). Look at the EFFECTS.
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,141 Likes: 604
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 3,141 Likes: 604 |
The Great Depression ended production at a number of fine gunmaking (and automobile and aircraft)companies. In tough times, art generally takes a back seat to basic survival. If the business cycle isn't totally interrupted by something cataclysmic, in about 60-years or so, maybe these fine little Spanish guns will become the darlings of a new crowd of doublegun fans?
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,008
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,008 |
John,
Do you have any information on the sales of SxSs other than Spanish? Are they dropping, too?
Kyrie's point about the influx of many used Spanish guns a few years back is correct. I, too, bought several wonderful guns at crazy-low prices. These are probably still damping down the market for new Spanish guns. Also, many of those cheap used imports were not good advertisements for Spanish guns.
But I wonder if other countries' gunmakers are facing the same shrinking market?
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,047 Likes: 54
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,047 Likes: 54 |
Tell me about the service and support network for Spanish made guns should I purchase one from a direct importer in the USA.
Are parts available?
Do parts readily interchange?
Who does warranty work?
Can I call someone in technical support and get an understandable answer?
In general, the question would be (and at the current price point, the answer needs to be satisfactory for the consumer). "How is the old world product interfaced to the modern world?".
Note how KIA has captured market share using extended warranties and locally available support.
"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 532 Likes: 26
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 532 Likes: 26 |
Simple. They should leave the EU.
Spain adopted the euro in 2002. In 2002 1 euro = 0.90 USD. Then the euro seemed to forever rise relative to the USD. Its softened some but a euro still trades around $1.30
Things would look a lot different if $1=1.30 euro.
Then again if oil was $45 a barrel and I could still afford bacon...
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 244
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 244 |
A few years ago I was eyeing pretty hard a bespoke Spanish SxS in 16ga. I knew there was a big difference between original purchase price and what I could resell it for, but that didn't matter because the orignal purchase was a good deal.
Then there was a big price increase, so it was no longer such a good deal, plus the used market did not rise accordingly. Sort'a a one-two-punch. This convinced me that the guns were no longer a good deal.
Not saying they aren't fairly priced, but if we are talking fairly priced, then there are lots of guns out there to consider.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,189 Likes: 18
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,189 Likes: 18 |
The Spanish guns require an advocate. It isn't that they cannot make/build good guns as much as it is that at the present moment they do not have anyone to champion that fact in the manner that M.M. did in the recent past. Weigh the preceding remarks fairly and the need becomes even more apparent.
Heck, I don't even know who the best read double gun scribe is any longer. As much as I like Garden & Gun on the face of the concept, they mostly muck about and sort of hit on the shotgun note from time to time. Sometimes it lands off-key; not always. I was really pleased to see the one page article on helice in the last issue. Their pub, is a semi-niche audience, but it is exactly whom the Spanish need address. Perhaps some of the better Spanish makers would do well to include them for an article covering their better made &/or bespoke guns. Driven shooting in Spain is among the world's most exclusive & so are some of the clothes & guns. Folks here are generally unaware of that. If you wish to market something at the top, the buyers have to perceive the exclusivity is there, enough to justify the purchase price.
Aston's & Maserati's are not sold cheap yet they have a less than stellar resale value. Same thing may be said of some BMW's.
Just some idle thots, but you asked.
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