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"A successful strategy depends on a truthful understanding of reality."

We're doing the same work here, James, restoring forests to the biodiversity of before the Europeans came to the continent.

Most people want to do the right thing for the environment but need to be shown how to do it. We don't have to advertise, we're swamped from word-of-mouth.

Water protection is a big part of it. It's against the law here to cut trees within 30 metres of a watercourse that may be dry in summer.

JRB, Do you think that will be a successful strategy moving forward or will it entrench what opposition there is.

There are three groups of people, us, them and the undecided. We aren't changing the minds of the anti gun people, only the undecided. One could scare the shit out of them, the way the left does constantly does about guns. But I don't think that's too effective. Sure, the NRA efforts scare the shit out of elected officials and get them to do the right thing but as you point out, that's a constant battle. Better to figure out a successful indoctrination of the undecided into our camp. We won't accomplish that by being angry old men, no matter how right we are.

You, Keith, Doug and a few others sometimes confuse what I'm saying as if I cared what the left leaning members here think. I know what they think and I won't be changing their minds, no matter how nice or rude our exchanges are. Because of that, I'd just as soon they are nice exchanges. I have enough unpleasantness in my life....I don't come here for more.

What I'm generally talking about is the larger picture...for example the Millenials in the Pew poll Dave posted about. There is the jackpot....the ones that can make a difference.

I'll give you an example in another area of life and politics....inter generational change.

You all have probably heard that since the mid 1960's there has been a strong effort by a faction in Quebec to separate from Canada. Over the last 50 years, facts and reason have been lost on those who heard the siren song. The province suffered mightily, both economically and socially, as did the rest of Canada. The separatists have spoken with an angry voice for half a century, lying the whole time. Finally, after enough exposure to the hollowness and falseness of their dream and the lies, the population of Quebec is done with them. Oh, they'll flap around like a dying turkey for a few more elections, but it's over. Why? Because they are a bunch of angry old reactionaries, fighting battles the younger generations couldn't care less about. Each passing year they are a smaller group and less relevant.

To me, the Left today are those those separatists. Liars simply trying to maintain their position at the public trough. We need people like Keith, rigorous in their efforts to expose the lies. But it has to be more than that.

There has to be something good and uplifting to win them, their hearts and minds. That's not just a slogan for the Left, it should be a rallying call for the Right. You have the reality and mythology of your American history, as uplifting a story as can be told. Surely to God your Founders would have been able to do better than kick the ground and grumble about the F***ing Libtards.

I believe you and congratulate your success, no kidding, but is this a truthful understanding of reality or a bit of glamorized embellishing. But hey, speaking of 'word of mouth', reprangel says today that the TEA party is a bunch of racist. That should dovetail conveniently with your misgivings about them.

Let's see, we could just ask the TEA party and observe their track record, or we could find inspiration in a lib ideolog. I don't think we could question the ideolog, that would be pc inappropriate.

No embellishing, Craig. It can't be embellished. Taking off Monday for NYC to pick up, in effect, the Nobel Prize for responsible forestry, awarded by the Rainforest Alliance once globally each year to a community-backed organization.

I don't think there are more racists in Tea Party than any other national political organization. The TP is vulnerable because the Dems (and Rs in their own party) are capitalizing on their weakness in recognizing critical demographics.

Canvasback, how many times have us gun owners compromised? Everytime there's a compromise we give up a little more and they give up NOTHING. If we keep it up pretty soon we won't have a damn thing left. I'm done compromising. I'm not giving up anymore. PERIOD DONE DEAL.

JRB, not for a moment am I suggesting you compromise. Not you, not me, not anyone. I've had my guns taken away from me because too many people compromised. That's not what I'm suggesting or encouraging.

All we are suggesting is civility in our discussions with those members that disagree with us here on this board. No compromise, just civility between members in our discussions here on this board.

Truly congrats King. I believe your accomplishment is one of preservation and responsible resource use for your area. I'm not so sure the landscape is being returned to its pre european colonization state, or if that's even a primary goal. I personally don't believe most care about environmental issues. Particularly in the venue you're headed to, an honest look around the room may show more posers than than folks that would head up to NS and roll up their sleeves. Does not though take one bit away from your special day.

Why....?

Would you be civil and nice to someone who burned down your house and injured your family.......Would you go have coffee with them knowing they intentionally did this..........

Why would you want to be polite to someone who knowingly voted to destroy the country you love and impair the hobby or sport that you hold dear..........?.......Why......?

It is obvious they are ignorant and will not change, so what do you hope to gain.......more destruction to the country that you love..........?

So when did Dave in Maine burn down my house? When did King injure my family?

Hunters and shooters need to attract voters to our sport and our hobby. If we insist that they have to be pro-life, anti-gay marriage, anti-ObamaCare, anti-welfare, pro-states' rights, anti-renewable energy and pro-fossil fuels before we deign to be friendly and civil to them the Second Amendment and our gun rights are doomed.