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Dave,
Do not Russia, Venezuela, Saudi etc meet there own domestic needs before selling into the international market? Thereby controlling the cost of fuel internally? I believe they do and so do many other petroleum producing countries. Those countries typically have nationally owned oil companies. I'm not saying that is what we need. A tweak to the laws concerning energy exports could be considered though. But by claiming energy independence and selling our resources into the international commodity market we are not exactly achieving the stated goal. I get the premise of increased supply lowers our cost but that is a long long way from what is being sold to the American public.

I raise my hand up Steve.

Did you read Bill's thoughts. He called Mr. Bundy a welfare hypocrite, but said he had a right to accessing federal land because of where he lives. I get lectured about my small tent, but Bill says elections don't matter except around his immediate area.

Many say petroleum fuels are not necessary, but no mention about how he gets along with 'green' energy. Does a wild place really seem wild if it's dotted with turbines and panels.

He offers the very general comment about needing leadership that is pro conservation. Does that mean areas with no human access, or recycling bins in big cities.

Back to the point, and to your point, where is the assurance that hunting access on public land is preserved. At the least, is there something more than counting on luck and living out west. Sure I brought up the liberal connection, but I tried to explain the history and wonder about inconsistency.

At every turn, 'outdoorsman' are giving up rights, privileges and traditions. It bears worth repeating, he said national elections don't matter. How much smaller could a tent be.

Mike,
I do not know anyone who has had a well effected personally. I do read the paper here and to me it is very obvious that the rules are tilted away from accountability here in Colorado. Our Governor is suing several cities, not little crossroads on the plains but major cities. The reason? The have banned fracking inside city limits. Seems reasonable to me for a city to set land use rules. That is how it usually works in our cities. By the way, Gov is a Democrat. Another Colorado rule governing fracking allows the drilling companies to not reveal the chemicals they use. Hard to prove they are the source then.

BP certainly paid out, but that was deep water drilling wasnt it? Or did they frack that well too? Amazing technology and I'm not totally against it.

Steve I don't think the Gulf/BP blowout was from fracking. But it was an oil spill and contamination.

It appears to me that those cities do not own the mineral rights underneath them. If they did the oil/gas would be theirs' to leave in the ground. If the state owns the mineral rights it would be theirs to pump out.

I am not in the oil business. But as I understand it the fracking occurs four or five miles underground. Your water well is probably no deeper than two hundred feet. The danger of contamination comes from the vertical penetration through the water aquifer. So they penetrate your acquifer and then drill down another 25,000 feet and then they drill out horizontally in several directions. That is the level that the fracking occurs in.

I do not know how much accountability there is for oil companies in Colorado. I have operated a profitable business for thirty some odd years. I do know when there is no mess I don't have to argue about who caused it and who pays to clean it up. So we go out of our way to prevent messes in our business, even when they would be someone else's fault. In my opinion the oil companies are making so much money they don't want to spend any time with lawyers, being deposed, and talking to the press and congressional committees. They would much rather be out drilling making obscene amounts of money. I believe they are very very careful because it is profitable for them to be careful.

I think the people that believe in and are worried about CO2 induced global warming are waging a guerrila war on fossil fuels. I think the horror stories about fracking and damage to sage grouse are about global warming, not water well pollution and game conservation. That is my opinion. I base it on the hyperbole surrounding fracking as compared to the reality of fracking.

The only reason not to approve the new big pipeline from Canada is that it increases CO2 per gallon of gas because tar sands crude makes more CO2 than West Texas Intermediate Crude. Before Obama knew he was going to be able to get CO2's classification as pollutant through the Supreme Court he put on strict new and unnecessary mercury pollution levels on coal fired plants which would have obsoleted half of them.

Fracking is spreading around the world. The people who believe CO2 is the cause of global warming see a worldwide supply of plentiful and cheap oil and gas as a catastrophe. They oppose fossil fuels at every opportunity and are willing to use the flimsiest of arguments. They exaggerate its risks and minimize its benefits.

Steve I don't mean you are being disingenuous. I mean that the guys writing the stories for the New York Times and Bloomberg and the guys in the White House and the EPA are spinning everything they can, including the dangers of fracking. I think yours is the natural reaction to the news as they have spun it to us.

Craig,
I think national elections matter. Quite a bit actually. I have no illusions that green energy will save the planet. Not my bag. I do feel we should be doing our all to tap these natural resources in a responsible manner. I'm not saying that we should not frack, or that solar or wind will save the day. They won't.

As to Mr. Bundy, at this point I'm not sure what to think. I think him and the BLM need to come to terms on the grazing issues and not have shoot out that is for sure. His story has little to with hunting public lands really. I do think with history on the side of outdoorsman and many elected officials who fully understand the need for the common person to access these lands that nothing will change in terms of the ability to hunt federal lands anytime soon. The current Federal land use policy calls for mixed use and hunting is specifically mentioned as one of those uses. You asked where is the assurance? The only thing I can assure you of is death and taxes. I still believe that the Feds controlling huge amounts of the west is a GREAT thing. I love being able to hunt, hike, fish, camp etc where ever the map tells me to go. Pretty amazing really. Not many places on the planet you can do that.

Craig I really think that in person we would most likely agree on much more than we disagree on.

Mike,
the climate change/global warming debate should become more interesting over time. Have you read much about how solar activity effects our climate? Really interesting stuff and well above my head. I do have a close friend who spent years in the field who's brain I am planning to pick on the subject.

I believe the mineral rights in question in these cities are privately owned. The question revolves around what kind of regulations on industry a city can put in place.

Personally I have not doubt that pollution is out of control, not in this country but in China, India ETC. I do agree with you that much quackery revolves around the subject of climate change, CO2 etc. I'm not so sure I agree with your take on the media spinning it though. Plenty of media on both sides really. One side might exaggerate the risks and downplay the benefits but the industry does exactly the opposite. Two sides as always and in this case neither is being completely honest are they?

No doubt in my mind that both the oil industry and the anti-CO2ers spin. But most of the media are on the anti-CO2ers side and certainly Obama and his EPA are.

I have read some articles about solar cycles and sunspots and global warming.

BBC recently reported a study that found that pine forests emitted certain volatile organic compounds (VOCs). These specific VOCs combine with dust and water vapor to make trillions of tiny little "mirrors" that reflect sunlight back into space, thus significantly dampening global warming. The higher the temperature, up to a certain point, the more of these particular VOCs are emitted by the pine forests and the more sunlight gets reflected back into space. I have diligently searched the New York Times several times and the study has not been mentioned yet. Nor have I seen it reported on CBS, MSNBC, ABC or PBS.

Agree with you about Obama and the EPA but I see it as both sides completely lacking in credibility. Sort of like who is the least bad liar? Just my view mind you.

The article I read about solar activity stated that the period we are just entering is similar to one last encountered during the 1400's and coincided with some of the coldest temperatures known to have occurred since the last ice age. It stated that globally 2013 recorded the largest single year temperature drop in quite some time. Centuries if memory serves. I'll look for that article.

The hard- science evidence is clear about the co-2 damage and contribution to climate change. Even if it were less clear, how could we ignore the risk? Green energy is presently puny, but the potential job creation in its widespread development would be significant. I'm not saying we can drop fossil fuels tomorrow, but it seems a foregone conclusion that they'll wreck the planet long before they're used up. As for sage grouse, I know their declining rapidly in Wyoming where the gas industry cuts up habitat with roads,and builds structures that permit hawks and eagles to prey on them more easily.

Steve I don't think Obama and the EPA lie more than the oil industry. I do think Obama's propaganda gets deep and broad coverage by the major media outlets I mentioned before and that the oil industries' hardly sees the light of day.

Here is the BBC article:

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26340038

I had details wrong. The article says that the VOCs combine with oxygen to make aerosols and that that aerosol reflects sunlight back into space.