doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com muzzleloader proofs

Gents--I have a muzzeloader in hand that has J Grainger on the locks. In doing some research, I find there were a couple of J Graingers in England, possibly brothers. One, James, was a clock maker and lock maker. The other, John, made firearms. From what I find, John Grainger moved to Toronto, Canada in 1854, then back to England in 1868. My question on this gun is the lack of proof marks. All it has is the marks shown on the breech plugs which I'm not sure is an inspection mark or a choke designation mark. Should there not be more proof marks if made in England? I thought perhaps the gun might have been made during the period he was in Canada (where the gun is) as there are no proof laws here. But then why the marks that it does have? Or if they are just choke desigignation marks, might the barrels just have been stamped with them by the maker to show choke even if it was made in Canada? Or am I completely out to lunch on this gun.

looks like a inspection Birmingham proof mark

there should be a set of marks on the barrels- i see part of one left

my GUESS, the barrels were redone and the marks struck off during the process

Here is what I was able pull from the Internet Gun Club. Not very helpful.

Hopefully Roy will jump in on this one...

James Grainger
31 Vauxhall, Upper Wolverhampton
Gun Lock Maker
Exhibitor at the Great Exhibition in 1851
1851-1874

John Grainger
Toronto
1854-1868
Father of William. Became Grainger & Son in about 1856.

J Grainger & Son
Grahamstown, South Africa
Gunsmiths, Importers & Dealers
c.1865-1890


J Grainger (Jnr)
Grahamstown, South Africa
c.1882-1900
J Grainger (Jnr) may have been a partner in his father's firm, but in about 1882 may have left to open his own business as did W Grainger; his father may have taken in another son as a partner, or perhaps he simply kept the name including the "& Son". Several gunmakers by the name of Grainger ceased trading in England shortly before 1865.

I agree, that is a Birmingham view mark. Not sure what the law was for barrels meant for export.

Pete

Pete M
I believe that I saw this gun a month or so ago at the Woodstock, Ontario, gun show. My opinion then was that it was made in Birmingham and sold by John Grainger, Toronto.
I would agree that the remnants of proof marks are of Birmingham origin. All guns finished in Birmingham including those destined for export were/are required by law to be subject to proof testing,with appropriate approval marks applied upon passing proof.
It is highly likely that even semi finished barrels sold in the white for export would have to be submitted for provisional proof prior to sale.
According to some authorities, early complete guns made by John Grainger in Canada had the initials JG stamped on the inner face of the lock plates.
As a matter of interest; following the advent of the breech loader early Birmingham and perhaps London guns destined for export had all of the proof marks applied to the outside diameter of the barrel rather than on barrel flats. At some point in the late eighteen hundreds this practice was abandoned.[Perhaps to minimise the risk of creating stress raisers in the barrel caused by the presence of multiple stamp indentations.]

Thanks guys. Roy, most likely the same gun as it came from a guy in Ontario. I removed the locks but I can't see any identifying marks on the inside of the locks. Too bad whoever rebrowned the barrels didn't etch them.

Pretty nice looking gun.

It has a Joseph Manton style raised rib.

Looking at the gun again, I can see really no evidence that any proof marks have been struck off. But I could be wrong. However, it got me to thinking. If Grainger made this gun in Canada and ordered rough barrels that he finished here in Canada, how could the barrels be submitted for proof if they weren't ready for that step?