doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Mid 1920s Simson 20 ga

A Simson SxS that might interest some viewers. Proofed in 1925 and imported by Iver-johnson Sporting Good Co, a 20ga and ejectors no less. Although I have not received it yet it appears to be in very good condition and unscrewed with. Grade is unknown but I have a 1926 catalog coming from Cornell Publications that should clarify that. Anybody know how long these were sold by I-J? I have been involved with SxS guns for over 50 years and this is the first one I have seen. 20Ga guns I know are not too common in German guns, and I am sure I paid too much for this one.












Some more photos at http://s36.photobucket.com/user/james-l/library/Projects/Simson%2020ga?sort=4&page=1

I-J Sporting Goods was an outlet for Simpson & I would hazard a guess that they peddled Simson's wares, maybe including rubber baby buggy bumpers, until the Simson family was forced to relinquish control. There's been some offsite tangents and it would seem that J. Lovell Johnson(possible heir to J. P. Lovell Arms Co.?) seems to be the key here.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

http://books.google.com/books?id=uX8XAQA...any&f=false
1899/1900 Info on Iver Johnson Sporting Goods & John P. Lovell Arms Co.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Someone else brought that very gun to my attention. First Simson I've ever seen made for Iver Johnson. The individual asked me for comments based on the photos. Told him I was a bit surprised that chamber length was not marked on the gun, and before getting too interested, he should probably ask. With no chamber length marked, I'm guessing it's 2 1/2"--unless it's been lengthened. Short chambers wouldn't be an issue for some, but might cause others to look elsewhere. Also overbored from the factory, per the 19 on the flats. I had a mid-30's Sauer imported by A&F that was also a 19, although it was factory 2 3/4".

interesting gun. wonderful condition. germans not big on marking chambers lengths as were others.

Post WWI up till say 1933 when there was a name change to Waffa, Iver Johnson Sporting Goods Company handled what looks to be the whole line of Simson's wares, using their same Modell Nr. Simson was heavy into racing(Otto Reif, Hugo Vonderlindetc.) & was attempting to capitalize on the pigeon shooting craze at the time. Iver Johnson Sporting Goods Co. carried O/Us and others. I think them to be common but then again I'm up to my eyeballs in German info. Backbored, overbored, underbored, I think it was happenstance that if the parameters add up to that. I'd invite Ford & Baumgarten's opinion, but I don't think one would want to throw a solid projectile down the tube in an overbore/backbore. Germans centered their gunmaking on the 16 bore platform, barrel harmonics for multi-tube variants and they could turn raw tubes out day after day at those spec. They seemed to be cautious on the 12 and 20 bores, and even the 24, as they were usually 1 bore more or less from the nominal. Ford can put us on the straight and narrow here. I can't see if there is a constriction mark on the right tube but Simson did go the extra mile and have it Nitro proved.

A bit more stylish version from the same period:
http://www.vintagedoubles.com/catalog/?sort=4&process=fullview&gunID=1747

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

When the gun is delivered I will do a check on bore size, chokes, weight, better photos of the proof marks and post the results. like Larry I have never seen one with the Iver-johnson marks and been looking at SxS guns for a long time. I bought it assuming the chambers are 2 1/2" which was standard in the US at the time, considering the apparent condition of the gun my guess is that it has not been messed with, but who knows.

On many of those German examples, the chamber length if greater than 65mm(+/- 2.5mm I believe or was the line of demarcation 5mm?) was stamped on the face of the extractor. Tom McDevitt(passed in April 2009) had an Iver Johnson Sporting Goods Simson O/U but something was amiss with the ejectors. I'll have to attempt to dig up the images.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=110240&page=1

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

My Sauer was indeed stamped 2 3/4" on the face of the ejectors. Happenstance or not, if a 20 is in fact a 19 (as marked on BOTH flats of that gun), then it's overbored for a 20. Standard BD for a 20 is .615; for a 19, .626. If one doesn't pay attention to those proofmarks when measuring BD, one is likely to think someone's done some serious honing--when that's the way it left the factory.