doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com In Search of the Perfect Turkey Gun

I've got several posts in the thread about barrel convergence, and told about my struggle to get a cheap Yildiz sxs 20 gauge to shoot both barrels to the same POA with my heavy tungsten turkey loads. I've enjoyed hunting with the little gun, and the 5 lb 2 oz weight of it is a real help to an old man with a bad back. I've had enough fun with the junk gun that I'm interested in getting a quality sxs as my dream turkey gun. I'm not getting any younger, and if I am ever gonna have one, I need to find it.

The problem is that there doesn't seem to be any production sxs made that is even close to the gun I want, and I can't even find one to send to my gunsmith and be modified. I looked all over the internet, came across this site, and realized there are a bunch of smart people here regarding the sxs. So maybe you guys can either help me, or tell me that my quest is futile and I ought to forget it.

I've turkey hunted for years with a Super Black Eagle with a holosight on it and considered it the ultimate turkey gun. Then I started using tungsten shot 5 years ago and decided the 12 gauge was overkill. A 2 oz load of tungsten at 1250 fps will kill one cleanly at 75 yds, and I never had any desire to shoot turkeys at that kinda range. So I bought the little Yildiz, setting it up with one barrel open for close shots and one barrel tight for 40 yd shots. It comes close to my idea of the perfect turkey gun, and I realize that's a very subjective thing - Homeless Joe disagrees with me, but that's ok. Here's my 2 turkey guns now:



Here's the gun I want:

A 20 gauge sxs with barrels 22" long, threaded for a common brand of choke tubes. It should have an alloy receiver to keep the weight down, and it should weigh about 5 pounds. It needs to be able to have a Burris FastFire sight on it, the same as the Yildiz in the pic. The FF uses a Marlin 336 base and if my gunsmith could figure out a way to drill and tap the Yildiz, it shouldn't be a problem on a good gun. I need a good quality recoil pad, and LOP needs to be on the short side. Its 13.5" on the Yildiz, and that's about right. An absolute must is double triggers - this is the one thing that makes me dissatisfied with the Yildiz. I can select the barrel I want with it, but nothing is as fast as double triggers. Its also just a matter of personal preference; I think a sxs oughta have double triggers.

And the gun must be regulated to shoot my extremely heavy 1.75 oz handloads. If I can find a gunmaker who would make me a gun, I could send him some of the loads. It has to shoot both barrels to the same POA with this load or its useless. I am willing to spend a ridiculous amount of money to get such a gun; I am not willing to spend an obscene amount.

I don't want any engraving or fancy wood, and in fact, it wouldn't matter if the stocks were composite. The gun will eventually get a camo dip. I've seen some good quality 20 gauge guns for sale that might work, but they are too good to even think of chopping them up like this. If the Yildiz came with double triggers, I could possibly send one to a gunsmith who could customize it for me, but they don't make them. Doesn't seem like anyone else does either. CZ makes a Bobwhite model that has double triggers, but its a steel receiver and has a straight English stock, and I don't want either of those.

I think this is a long shot to even post this. I suspect that the few custom gun makers that are left are not gonna want to make something like this, and there may not even be anyone capable of making it. I dunno, but I figure some of you guys will. Thanks for any help!

Have you tried Ellis Brown?


Ellis Brown Custom Shop
39384 CR19
Fort Collins, CO
80524-9038

970-686-5220
ellis450@hotmail.com

http://bundukipublishing.com/doublerifle.htm

I do NOT know if he is taking on any work at this time, BUT he MAY be interested in this project. perhaps, possibly, we shall see


Mike

I have not asked any custom gunmaker about this, but I will send the info to Ellis Brown and see what he says. Thanks for the tip! I'm also gonna send it to Connecticut Shotguns, but I suspect they will be horrified by the idea of someone asking them to build such a monstrosity.

OK, look at these
Baikal MP220
or

IZH-43 20 gauge Bounty Hunter II

http://eaacorp.com/portfolio-item/mp200-series-side-by-side-shotgun/

Weighs 6 1/2 pounds

Inexpensive one to try
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=340812075

Mike
P.S. here are some picture of the 43, screw in chokes and all
http://classic.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=11569196

The Baikal or its Remington equivalent, the Spartan, would be perfect for your needs. At one point I was using a Spartan coach gun for jump shooting ducks. Chrome bore, screw in chokes, steel shot approved, a great rough shooting gun. Built like tanks. I have to imagine mounting a red dot on it wouldn't be a problem.

Mergus

Thanks for the tips on the Baikals! I had looked at them last year, but didn't go that direction because they weigh 6.5 lbs; that's only a half pound less than the 12 gauge Benelli.

I don't think I'm gonna find any production gun that will come close to my 5 pound goal, other than the Yildiz, and it isn't available with double triggers.

A question please,
With that heavy shot load, would not an over under help pattern dispersion?

The horizontal plane of the side by side will cause the patterns to shift as recoil moves your body differently with the left and right barrel.

The vertical barrels of an over/under react differently

Mike

You are exactly right! And I am not basing this on theory, but on the experience of several friends also shooting the heavy tungsten loads. They do tend to have up-down issues; one barrel usually prints the pattern higher than the other. However, the differences are not nearly as much as with my sxs. Some have compensated by using 2 different loads to get the same POI; others just remember to aim a little higher or lower.

I only know of 2 other hunters that are using sxs guns and tungsten loads, and both are using 28 gauge CZ guns and 1 and 5/16 oz loads. I don't think their problems were very significant with the lighter loads and heavier guns.

So why not just use an o/u? I don't like them; no reason for it, they just never have appealed to me. I grew an attachment to sxs guns in my youth and its never left me. I already talked about killing my first squirrel with a borrowed sxs .410, and my dad wouldn't buy the gun for me. All I remember is that it was a .410 Winchester and the man wanted $40 for it; my dad said that was more than it was worth. I've often wondered how much it would be worth now.

My first 12 gauge was bought when I was 14 and it was a Spanish-made sxs with 26" barrels. I don't remember the manufacturer, but nobody had ever heard of them. It cost $60 in 1968. How I loved that gun! It balanced perfectly and I began to have some real success at wing shooting with it, mainly hunting doves, quail and ducks. I killed my 2nd deer with it, a big 8 point. And then one day the left barrel wouldn't shoot. We sent it to a gunsmith, and he said the metal was so soft he didn't think his fix would hold. It didn't, so we sent it back.

I got it back during turkey season one night; I was 16 at the time and made plans to go hunting before school the next day. I called to a gobbler on the roost, and he flew down and lit about 20 yards away. As I raised the gun to shoot him, I flipped off the safety and both barrels went off. The gun smacked me in the mouth and busted my lip pretty bad. We had a baseball game that afternoon, and since I played first base, all the players on both teams kept asking me what had happened to my mouth, so I told the story dozens of times.

I inherited my grandfather's quail gun - a Stevens 311 12 gauge. Neither barrel would shoot, and the finish was rough, so I had it restored and have hunted with it a good bit. I spent way more on restoring it than it was worth, but it was worth it to me.

So I want a good sxs turkey gun just because I want one.

GREAT answer
Thanks
Mike

coosa;
I'm with you all the way on that. I just don't want Nuttin but a side by Side & I like mine to have two triggers also. Ejectors are OK if it happens to have them but it doesn't concern me if it don't.