doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com DRILLING IDENTIFICATION HELP...........!

I HAD A CUSTOMER BRING IN A DRILING, ON THE LEFT BARREL IT IS MARKED F.W. KESSLER...SUHL...T/M, ON THE TOP OF THE RIB IT SHOWS...V. HAFNER...SUHL...CASSEL. IT IS A DBL 16 GAUGE SHOTGUN OVER A 9.3 x 72R, per my friends at germanguns.com. On the bottom of each barrel there are two eagles I originally thouhght but they must be the Henne (chicken monogram) for Suhl. They were covered with either gold or bronze, it looks like gold to me. One henne is larger than the other. Ther are numerous other Inspector marks on the underside of the barrels, even the RE-PROOF date of 534. The gentlemen at the germangun.com club believe this is pre1890, and only inspected in 534 to adhere to the ever-changing demands of the laws. The front trigger has a screw to adjust the front trigger, the latch at the bottom of the trigger guard opens the breech, the lever on top switched the hammer from hitting the right shotgun barrel ofr the rifle barrel, at the same time it moves the rear site from a shotgun sight to a rifle sight. The barrels were made of "PRIMA FLUSS STAHL. There are four engravings on the breech, 1 = a rabbit scene, 2= the other on the same side is a Doe Deer, 3= opposite side of gun there is a fox scene 4= A Buck Deer scene. there is a fifth engraving on the shell holder which is on top of the stock, not the rear nor the bottom but on top, it has room for 3 bullet rounds and one extra shotgun shell. On the cover there is a 5th engraving of a Elk scene.
Can anyone add to it's identity or value of this drilling. also tie it to whom made this thing. the german gun club believes this was made by kessler for valentin haefner, since it has a serial number of 19449, their thinking is it had to be made by someone whom made alot of drillings unless part of this number is the gunmaker's number and the factory number. if you could email me i could send you pictures, but i am a new member and have no idea how to attach pictures to this site. so please email me ..KCU@TRAKSGUNSMITHING.COM ..THEN... I can attach the pictures to my reply in my email...I can do that...
Thank You for any assistance....
Sincerely
Kurt Ullmann
www.traksgunsmithing.com

The following are a few images sampled from the lot but I appear to be missing some images of the stamps on the underside of the tubes.
















Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

A few more:








Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Other emails suggest it has a pre-1910 plug gauge stamp of 118/35 and a powder type & bullet weight/type for the solid projectile. I hope the images are forthcoming. I am curious if there is a monogram on the standing breech. I would guess that F.W. Ke�ler took the order and then subcontracted the work to one of the mechanics in the Zella-Mehlis area. The "Prima" fluid steel stamp, action type derived from the Roux monicker, engraving and a few other items seem to be reminiscent of the Zella-Mehlis area. Interesting musselshell type side frame reinforcement. I don't have the catalogue with me and maybe Baumgarten can confirm, but that may have been on some of the F.W. Ke�ler models. The stamp of his name with the area Thurgunia(?) suggests an export type to me.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Hofb�chsenmacher would roughly translate to gunmaker to a royal court, generic, while other stamps like K�niglich S�chsischer Hofb�chsenmacher would be gunsmith to the Royal Saxon court or something of the like( http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post204070 , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_and_Royal ) . Much like the Austro-Hungarian empire, it was an applied for or appointed title that would warrant a yearly fee and there may be a list somewhere if it stood the ravages of war & time. Nothing more than advertising, or an advertising gimmick that was an attempt to garner more credibility as a gunsmith but in the end most were purely firearms merchants and sub-contracted the work to a small pool of the best of the best mechanics. Now to solely be a firearms merchant one still had to be a master gunsmith.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

And Baumgarten comes thru nicely:









Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Also the 1/2 pipe-stem type side frame reinforcement seems to have been more common as this example at William, Larkin & Moore:

http://williamlarkinmoore.com/product_details.asp?id=2441




Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I have never seen a top loading magazine trap, but it sure is thicker up there for shotgun shells.

I like the idea of a top-loading trap, if only b/c it would eliminate the silly fear that the trap would open of its own accord and dump my rounds somewhere along the line. Murphy is my near constant companion....