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Why would it be anything but ?

This post bothered me since i read it first yesterday. Shooting at crows at 80yds with any shotgun load smacks of childish behaviour and doesn't speak well of a self styled southern gentleman who chastises others for not meeting notions of genteelmanly conduct. Ever hear of fair chase- or if you don't think crows fall under fair chase- how about humane treatment? The killing effect of shotgun at extreme range depends on multiple hits and cumulative shot energy. You spray at a crow with a 4 shot and crow flies off with punctured gut or eye shot out. This sounds more like torture not the fair chase genteel thing to do for any animal.

When it comes to crows, as long as they die, it's a blessing. They're one of the largest predators of duck and goose eggs on the planet.

DLH

Actually, we limit the children to 60 yds.

Nitro, I'm thinking that if you hit a crow in the eye with a #4 at 80 yards, that's likely a dead crow. My ballistics book only gives energy out to 70 yards, but a 4 launched at 1400 fps still retains 2.35 ft-lbs at that range. I'd say it'd be good to 80 if you hit anything vital . . . but the pattern's got to be getting pretty thin out that far.

Larry,

What book is that? I've casually accumulated some tables and graphs over the years, but don't have a table giving retained energy for anything past 50 yds.

That's Southern gentleman, nitro, with a capital S.

Is a crow wounded at 80 yds., that flies off and dies, any different than one (or any bird for that matter), that is shot at a much closer range (let's see, is 30 yds. inside your range of gentility?) and fringed on the very edge of a ragged pattern with one or two pellets and flies off to die, by someone who does not shoot enough to be proficient at killing even close birds dead in the air? I think not. Everyone who shoots at live birds wounds those that fly off and die unrecovered, whether shot at 80 yds. or at 20. We do everything we deem reasonable to prevent it, but it happens.

What's "humane" about shooting at ANYTHING with a load of pellets that destroy vital organs and deliver shock to the nervous system to a point that it falls from the sky? Ever wrung a dove's or a duck's neck, nitro? Or is that the kind of thing that folks like you just don't mention when they are chastising others for being "ungenteelmanly"? It's bloodsport, like it or not. If you're worried about inhumane treatment, I'd suggest you stick to White Flyers and Blue Rocks.

Rail all you want, I'll have nothing else to say on this matter .

Stan

I have heard...rumours I am sure..that certain small bore rifle calibers are wonderful crow medicine out to a little bit farther than 80 yards...just internet gossip, I am sure, cuz that can't be legal......

Mark

Stan;
I typed in another p[ost on this but apparently didn't hit submit as is not here. First though let me comment, I did read into your previous posts your desire was to make the longest possible "Clean Kills, without crippling. I find no fsault with that concept.
I really did not intend to say you shoulld stick with the #7½'s all the way to 80 yds, just you may not need to skip all the way up to #4's. Keeping the size of shot as small as will still give ample penertration will enhance the pattern. Even #6' "May" be adequate for a fragile bird as the crow, though they would not be for a tough duck or goose at that range.
Though strictly a reloading concept the old British Low Velocity concept using 1½ oz shot with a 3DE powder charge is about the best of all worlds for the standard 2 3/4" 12ga. Some years back The Rifleman ran a load checked by then Hercules Powder CO utilizing an early Power Piston wad. Velocity was about 100/1125 fps & recoil less than the normal HV 3 3/4-1¼ load.
Lyman's Shotgun manual 1st edition had velocity charyts for various loads & shot sizes out to 60 yds, I don't know if this is included in later editions or not. The chart was provided courtesy of Winchester, Western.

Mike: It's "Shotshells and Ballistics", by John Taylor. Safari Press, 2003. Does not have the new 1500 fps lead loads, but gives ballistics for virtually everything available back then.