doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Fire Storm loads by Federal

I know this is a forum of folks mostly dedicated to shooting light loads out of your doubles, but at the risk of a tongue lashing I have a question. Federal makes the PF154FS load, 1 1/4 oz. of a mixture of copper plated shot (I know, it's not really plated) and nickel plated shot in 4,5 and 6 shot sizes. It leaves at a screaming 1500 fps. Loaded with Federal's FliteStopper wad, which is touted for it's ability to hold tight patterns at long range, would this not be the ultimate heavy long range lead load, without going over 1 1/4 oz.?

I have a tough old 32" double that is choked tight 'n tighter that rides with me on the farm everyday for potshots at crows and other vermin. For an occasional extreme long range shot, might this be the ultimate load?

Anyone tested them?

Stan

Not for me. First, I have to define a few terms such as "extreme long range" and then "ultimate load," while taking into account the game.

For me, 50 yds on a crow is "longish", and 70 yds on anything from clay targets to vermin (crows, starlings, pigeons) is extreme. I wouldn't shoot at a pheasant beyond 50 yds unless it was already wounded.

IMO, for a hunting load to be the "ultimate" it would have to surpass the next best thing by a significant margin. And by surpass, I mean it would have to exceed the effective range of the next best thing. The maximum effective range will be limited by 1) the pattern density of 2) pellets of adequate energy. I know 1 & 1/4 ounce of #5 shot at 1220 fps ( the std 3 1/4 DE) thru a full choke to be adequate to kill a crow at 70 yd (if it can be hit). For all i know, it may be adequate at ranges beyond that.

So, given adequate density and energy of 1 1/4 oz, 3 1/4 DE (3 3/4 is readily available) I don't see how increasing the MV to 1500 fps would help me kill more crows at 70yd.

Why do you suppose it might be the ultimate?

Stan:
You don't specify what type of "tough old 32" double" you have. Hopefully it's something not worth too much if you're going to run these apocalyptic loads through it.

On the other hand, I'd have a mobile phone handy. You'll need to call 911 if you try them. Medical attention may be required.

Best, Kensal

I have not patterned that exact load, but I did pattern Federal's 1500 fps load of 1 1/4 oz 6's. Compared it to two other 1 1/4 oz 6 shot loads: one was 3 1/4 DE (nominal 1220fps), the other 3 3/4 DE (nominal 1330 fps). Pattern percentages were in reverse order. The 1220 fps load patterned about 5% better than the 1330 fps load, which patterned about 8% better than the 1500 fps load. Even that ultrafast load, however, was around 70% at 40 yards. (Shot through a full choke.) I did find fewer pellets (about 30) in the 1500 fps load than in the other two, which is also going to hurt at long range. Personally, I'd want to do a pellet count and pattern that very fast load against, say, a conventional (1220 fps or 1330 fps) 1 1/4 oz load of 5's and see how they both look.

mike, I was curious about the FliteStopper wad, and the plated shot I guess. I would really like to be able to knock a crow out of a tree at 70 or 80 yards with the old Montgomery Ward (Stevens) 12 gauge. I paid $255 for it, and it is perfectly regulated. Just what I need in a "truck gun". I have heard some really good reports on the steel duck loads Federal markets with the FliteStopper wad, and hope it will do the same for the lead loads. They load their REALLY heavy turkey loads with this wad, but you won't catch me using a 1 3/4 oz. load in my doubles, even the old MW. Some are prolly wondering why I don't just use a rifle. Well, I did use my 22 magnum and 220 Swift for a long time, but, crows learn fast. They know that when my truck stops they had better fly out of the trees pronto, and they do.

I wondered too, Larry, that the 1500 fps may be counter-productive. But, possibly the FS wad over-rides the blown pattern problem we sometimes see with high velocity loads. That's the reason I was wondering if anyone had patterned any of them at long range. I'd definitely be using the 4's if I were trying to kill a crow at extreme range. We shoot crows every fall, when pecans and peanuts are ready for harvest (crows love them both), and I routinely use sixes. My two crow killing buddies use fours. We all use Xtra-full tubes, and I have witnessed crow kills at 80 yards with fours and a 3 3/4-1 1/4 load. I was just thinking that with the "special" wad and the plated shot, it might be even more of a long range load.

I e-mailed Federal last night and asked them what was the tightest constriction they would recommend for that load.

Thanks, Stan

There ya go! Killing crows with a shotgun at 80 yds is stuff I like to hear and see! But my point still is....does that load let you down at 100 yds? and will the new load with 20% more recoil do better?

I like hearing about experiences pushing the envelope. Be sure to post back if you try them this season.

mike,

We have never really taken any shots much beyond 80 yds., and that is with a Beretta 390 with tubes. I'd really like to test a few of these loads in my old MW double. It is a much better truck gun than a jammamatic, because I can keep a crow load in the right barrel and a load of No. 4 Buck in the left for coyotes. I may order a box and see. Sure wouldn't find a box of them within hours of here!

I was caught off guard for a crow shoot last year and had to use a couple boxes of my 3 3/4-1 1/4-7 1/2 flyer shells. I used a XXXFull Comp-N-Choke. My buddies using the fours commented on how far I was killing them that morning. We tallied about 120 in 3 hours in a pecan orchard.

I wouldn't care if it did kick like a drunk jackass if it would kill a crow reliably at over 80 yards. I wouldn't be shooting enough of them to hurt me or the gun anyway.

Stan

Did the small shot there give you a little clue. Crows have a lot of feathers & appear deceptivly larger than thay really are, often leading to the use of Too Large shot. Most folks don't eat them so "Mutilation" of the meat isn't generally a concern. Long range shotgunning is always a balance of pattern vs penertration. With Crows especially pick the smallest shot that will penertrate reliably.

I agree, Miller, up to a point. The crows I was killing with the 7 1/2s weren't 80 yards, more like 60. I do not believe 7 1/2's have the remaining energy to do the job on a crow at extreme ranges. Fours will. I agree that crows are pretty fragile, and not too hard to knock down. But, when we wound one and he falls and goes hopping off through the peanut field, and we have to leave our hide and run him down, we have just exposed ourselves to the keen eyes of the rest of his buddies. Can't stand to see even a crow escape wounded, so would much rather try and kill him dead. Larger shot does that better at long range. And, if he is only 20 yards, well, fours won't make him any deader, and we aren't worried about meat damage!

Stan

The current Pheasants Forever magazine carries an ad for Carlson choke tubes that are supposed to work especially well with the FliteStopper wads. Could be marketing hype, of course.