doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Syracuse Hammerless 10 gauge L.C. Smith

Hello All
I posted these pictures on another thread but thought why not made a seperate one

Here goes

L.C. Smith 10 gauge Grade 2 Syracuse Hammerless made ??

It has been very difficult to get data on this hammerless made late in the Syracuse days.





Anyone have info?

Mike

Mike:

Brophy's Book page 201 shows the following:

1884-New L.C. Smith Hammer Guns - 269
1885-L.C. Smith Hammer Guns - 1,950
1886-L.C. Smith Hammer Guns - 1,583
1886*L.C. Smith Hammerless Guns - 266
1887-*L.C. Smith Guns (both types January through April 268) Total estimated for the year.. - 2,165

Total L.C. Smith Guns Syracuse - 6,223
Total Guns manufactured by L.C. Smith, Syracuse, New York 15,714........includes the Baker guns produced *(9,491)

Your gun was made in 1886 or 1887 and that is probably as close as you're going to get.....even Cody would probably not get any closer, but it may be worth calling them though @ 307-578-4031. They may have some records on your gun....?....

Hunter Arms records are available after the move to Fulton, N.Y. through the Cody museum for almost every gun made in Fulton, even the Marlin built guns (L.C. Smith Gun Co.) after October 1945.

Hope this helps.....

Best,

L.C. Smith hammerless Syracuse guns started in 1886 and stopped in 1888 when Lyman Cornelius sold company to John Hunter. Hammerless guns were serial numbered 16xxx, 18xxx, 19xxx, 20xxx, 22xxx. Hammer guns were from 15xxx, 17xxx, 21xxx, 24xxx, 25xxx and 26xxx.
Your gun would most likely be 1887, and there were no more than 1,000 hammerless guns made total. Yours was the lowest grade, Quality 2 and cost $80.00 then, Quality 7 was the highest at $450.00.
There are no written records for Syracuse guns, only a small 3" X 6" notepad has some information on hammer and hammerless guns made and monies made. The hammerless gun production started in August of 1886 with 14 being made that first month.
Earliest serial number I have listed is 16036 with no patent dates. Only made in 10 and 12 ga. with 30" or 32" barrels.

In looking at my records, I have your serial number, 20112, Quality 2 10 ga. with 30 " barrels, but they are hammer barrels serial numbered 10827 which is a pre-1884 hammer gun made by L.C. Smith, Maker Syracuse N.Y.

Thanks
So 1887 neat!!
Appreciate the post
You are most correct about the one set of barrels, it also has the original set of barrels also
Thanks
Mike

they`re also a hoot to shoot after it`s checked out of course!

Research letters for Hunter Arms Smith guns are also available from the LCSCA
http://www.lcsmith.org/faq/researchltr.html

Mike, when you get a chance to look carefully at your gun, notice how fine the checkering is, should be 24 lpi. If you take the side plates off, you will notice how nice it was inletted. The barrels were listed as Good Damascus, and with plenty of "meat" to them. They were available in three weights, Extra Heavy, Heavy and Medium weight. The difference is the distance between the firing pins and breech balls.
You will see very few of these guns with any cracks usually seen in the later "elsies". (most due to improper loads).
The fit and finish on these early guns was first rate, and like Tom said "a hoot to shoot" with the proper loads.

When you get a chace, could I trouble you for the distance between the firig pns, distance across breech balls, and weight. I am missing information on the Extra Heavy weights. In 10 ga. with 30" barrels would weigh 8 1/2 - 9 3/4 lbs. 32" barrels would be 9 1/2-11 lbs.

Good luck with it.

Hello, finally able to measure.

Balls = 2.511
Distance between firing pins = 1.225 from centers of pins
Weight with original barrels = 8 3/4 pounds

I have been using single F with MEC 10 gauge wad cut to length and #3 steel shot in an Alcan all brass hull for duck hunting. Now that I have an Ithaca NID 2 7/8, I may retire the Smith?

Factory barrels are 30 inch, and the hammer barrel that also fit are 32 inch

Hope this helps
Mike

Mike, thanks. That is a very light 10 ga. Here is a picture of what I was saying about the rim opening to the extension rib. This gun, a 12 ga. is almost touching and would be considered a Medium weight.

Here is the original 30 inch barrel set
Gap is .050
and 3 divided by 64 is .046875
So mine must be 3/64th?



Enjoy the day
Mike

My very early Ideal Grade Fulton ten weighs exactly 11 pounds with 32" Damascus barrels. I will measure the pin separation next time I get it out.

Close enough, 1/64th is .0156. Yours is a good picture, mine of the 12 ga is not, but the outer rim is touching the extension rib.
The extension ribs for 10-12 ga were all the same width, so if too much was machined off the O.D. for the final fit of the brazed extension rib, there was a problem.

Thanks Bill.

I can't put my finger on the specific gun, but I have seen extension ribs that have been relieved a few thousandths to clear the extracted shells. No harm is done, and the guns work fine. On the other hand, I own a 12 gauge Lindner hammerless pigeon gun whose bore separation would seem to accommodate an eight gauge.

Bill, Thanks
Send me a PM or and email and I will send you a copy of the picture for your future use.
Mike