doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Old Stevens SxS shotgun???

I just found this on Gunbroker http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=178469529 Is this really an old Stevens SxS or made up from two guns?

Barrels from another gun. Did you buy it?

That is a rightious old J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co. double. Up thru Catalogue No. 52 they made doubles using the demi-bloc construction method. They were offered with either "high Pressure Steel", Twist, Damascus or Krupp Fluid Steel tubes screwed into the mono-bloc. By J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co. General Catalogue No. 53 (circa 1911) they had gone to chopper-lump barrel construction.

I bow to the expertise of Researcher. His knowledge is great and hard earned. He has corrected me before on guns I had not seen examples of and I have never seen a damascus Stevens of this type previously. Please excuse my ignorance.

What is the difference here between the "Demi-Block" & a "Mono-Block". Demi generally meaning "Half", so is the breech section of these bbls actually made in two halves, then joined together & the bbls installed similar to a Mono-Block, or is this just different terminology for a Mono-Block??

For useful definitions:
http://www.hallowellco.com/lumps.htm

This gun uses a mono-bloc


These barrels were fabricated to make chopper lump aka demi-bloc


http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=45466&PHPSESSID=


Pete

What J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co. called their demi-bloc system in the tirst decade of the 20th Century is what we think of as mono-bloc today.

I'm up in Kodiak for a month, so I'm away from my old catalogues. I already have this page from the J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co. 1912 Shotguns catalogue showing their chopper lump construction in my photobucket file --



It will be several weeks before I can scan in their earlier barrel construction page.

If the barrel and lug are forged as one, that is a chopper lump (demi-bloc).

This is a mono-bloc. (Pieper 1881)


http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=QiBMAAAAEBAJ&dq=246195

The Stevens catalog above clearly shows a chopper lump. The lump is forged as part of the barrel. Beretta still uses the monobloc.

(Beretta 1938 catalog)







Pete

I was totally familiar with the terms Mon-Block & Chopperlump. I have seen conflicting info on Demi-Block. Apparently from this thread the term has at various times & by Sundry makers been used for "Both" of the former.
The Stevens in question which was described as a Demi-Block is obviously not a chopperlump, with the steel block & damascus bbls. What I was not certain about was whether or not the block of the "Demi" was actually built in two pieces with a vertical seam through the center or not.
Perhaps Demi-Bloc was just a predecessor to the term Mono-Block.
Do we have any reference to the term Mono-Block prior to its use by Berreta. Although Pieper seems to have originated the concept he seems to have just mostly referred to it as his "Steel Breech Piece".

Miller,

Demi-Bloc appears in the 1921 Pieper catalog on the 300 series Bayard hammer guns.

Pete

The Stevens Arms and Tool Company guns: #375 & 385 are demi bloc guns and have Krupp Fluid steel barrels. Also had the recessed hinge pin.

Easy to see where they got the idea to sleeve shotgun barrels.

I am fully & totally aware of the use of the term "Demi-Block" in reference to Chopper Lump construction. I am also aware of J Stevens use of Chopper Lump bbls. But re-read Researcher's post here & quit skipping the issue. These bbls "ARE NOT" chopper lumped. According to Researcher they were cataloged by J Stevens as "Demi-Block", ""BUT"" the bbls were "Screwed into the front of the block", that's not Chopper Lump.

My question was & is a pure & simple one, was the breech end of these bbls (Block) made in one piece ala Mono-Block, ""OR"" was it made in two parts, assembled & the tubes then screw in place. This would be a construction which would greatly resemble a chopper lump bbl which has been cut off & sleeved. I thought this was a fairly simple question, but no one seems able to fathom it.

PS; Researcher did use the term mono-block in his description of these early J Stevens bbls. What my question really amounted to was, "Were they built on true mono-block construction", or did he just use this term as a "Figure of Speech" like so many today refer to sleeved bbls as having a mono-block regardless of original construction type.

Back home among my old catalogues and my scanner.

Here is the Stevens barrel construction page from General Catalog No. 52, circa 1906 --



Here is the page for the No. 360 and 370 that had Twist or Damascus tubes screwed into the monobloc --



By J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co.'s 1912 Shotgun Catalog they were using the chopper lump barrel construction --

Appears to be the same construction as the Hopkins and Allen I mentioned in an earlier post........