doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Valmet O/U design history?

I have always liked the Finnish Valmet over/under shotguns imported to the US in the 1960s and '70s under several brands, including Savage. They seemed to me to be decent entry-level doubles that are extremely reliable and handle reasonably well for certain purposes at a decent price.

Had always assumed that because of the top slide/locking block they were a modified/simplified version of the Remington 32 and/or the Krieghoff. But I was told on another board that the original model Valmet "Leijona" was introduced as a 16 guage in 1948 in Finland and was based on a design by Damon Petric of St. Etienne, France as redesigned by a Valmet technician Paavo Narinen. Can anybody confirm any of that? Does "Leijona" perhaps mean "Lion" in Finnish?

I have owned six of these guns and still have four (one's a 12x.308 O/U combination), but the only 16 guage I have ever seen for sale in the US was offered by a Western MA dealer ("Pack and Postal") and I was unable to buy it at the time. Never seen another even mentioned.

Do the Valmets bear ANY design relationship to the Rem 32 or the Krieghoff, besides the superficial resemblance of the sliding top lock? (I've never been able to compare these three designs side-by-side).

Any info greatly appreciated; hope you are all having a great Easter!

I have a Valmet in 20/20 with a second set of barrels in 12/.30-06.

I hope someone knows more about them, as they are interesting!

Essentially the same gun is still manufactured, and I understand that the presently made barrels can be fitted to the earlier Valmet and Tikka actions.

I have a Savage 333 20 ga with ejectors ic/mod.

Patterned it last week; beautiful 60/40 well dispresed patterns seeing just a little rib; both barrels. Dead center left/right on the pattern and true size.

If you look at the time line of the Rem 32, the Kreighoff and the Valmet, one followed the other in history. The Kreighoff was almost a direct copy of the Remington. I used to deal in 412s before my supply dried up (Stoegers) and I sold everything they had. I never saw a 16 and I doubt that they were built on 412 actions, as most of the Finns and Swedes shoot 12s, based upon what is being imported from those countries right now. The 412s are very stout. I saw one shotgun barrel set that the barrels came loose from the monoblock, and I had one set of hammer springs take a set after being cocked for 10 years. I had one customer who shot clays with a 412ST with 32" barrels. At last count he had 80K rounds through it without a quibble. I still have six guns of my own. I don't shoot them much any more because they are getting heavy as I get older. But for a time I hunted everything with a 12GA 26" 412S with left hand wood. I have a second gun set up with a high left hand stock for the combo and double rifle barrels. I always thought that the scope mounts were too heavy and too high, so I milled out .100 on the top of the base and installed Tasco World Class rings. Nowadays you can buy practically the same gun made on Finnish machinery called the Finnclassic from Marocchi in Italy. But they are too costly to import and make any money. Marocchi does make shotgun barrels that weight 8 oz less than the Valmet barrels, and they also make shotgun barrels with 3.5 inch chambers. The barrels would sell if someone would bring them in at a reasonable price.

Mike, you're correct that the sliding top lock goes way back to a French patent, but I don't have any documntation.
I converted to straight grip, stocked and metal finished a couple of Savage/Valmet 20's in the 1980's and they both came out very nicely. One is still the favorite shooter of a client I did multiple projects for.
I still have a nice piece of Turkish walnut machined for a 20 ga buttstock in the don't know what to do with box....

Thanks, guys! Anything anyone else knows would be appreciated.

Steve, you need to find a 333 20 guage for that stock; somebody's gotta have one that just needs to be extra pretty!

My old "Finnish Lion" 12 has a hand-checkered red/black stock of Yugslavian-origin walnut that looks like Indian rosewood. But the US-importer added a Polychoke vent rib, just for that "extra classy custom" touch.....Does anyone know if that rib could be removed? It doesn't appear to be hard soldered on, but I suppose that even if I were to take it off, I'd have to have the barrels reblued and a new front sight fitted. Might be worth the work, tho.

I don't much like the Valmets for upland hunting now that I'm a certified geezer, but I used a 330 20 and a 333 12 A LOT when I was younger. For ducks and turkeys and coyotes, they are still just the ticket.

I used to take my Savage/Valmet 2400 when I couldn't make up my mind what I was hunting and the bird and deer seasons overlapped. Now I just carry a birdgun and a long-barreled .357. Always made me a little bit nervous carrying both the rifle and shotgun barrels loaded; the Valmet barrel selector is VERY easy to operate....usually carried the rifle barrel empty until I saw fur (yeah, I know that defeats the purpose, but I keep having visions of that .308 slug whining off into the blue, having missed a bird. Ok in Idaho or Kansas maybe, but not in NY or CA.).

Mike, the story you heard is correct. Petrik, an expatriate Czech gunmaker in France, was the first to come up with the OU design featuring the sliding breech hood. I've never seen a date for his first gun, but I know he beat Remington to the draw. The Petriks, unlike the Remingtons and Krieghoffs, tended to be light field guns rather than heavier target guns. But it's the same basic design.

The price on most Valmets is certainly right. The only negative comment I can make is that I've run into 2 or 3 with absolutely godawful triggers.

I started shooting a 412ST with 32" barrels at sporting about 8 years ago. It came with a 32" single trap barrel and the 32" O/U set. It is an adjustable comb gun set up for trap and shot too high for me, so I added a "glue-on" high rib which caused it to shoot perfectly 60/40. Shot it for several years but never could get used to the excessive slack in the otherwise good trigger. Shot it 'til the rib popped loose. Sent it to Jim Clark at Simmons who tried several times to resolder the rib. Every time it came loose when he re-blued it. So, he shucked the Valmet rib and put on a new Simmons rib. While there he helped the trigger a great deal. It is a fine sporting gun, plenty heavy but lively, with much of the weight in a very dense buttstock.

But, alas, I discovered Perazzi, and the Valmet now patiently waits to be used. Great guns for the money. Tough, good ejectors, bulletproof lockup, and nearly all barrel sets will fit nearly all receivers without hard fitting. I have found barrel regulation on them to be superb, having used and shot several different guns and barrel sets.

I really should sell it to someone who will shoot it, because I can't see myself leaving my two MX-8s, but I just can't bring myself to part with it yet. Just too nice a gun to let go.

Thanks, Mr. Brown. I won't even try to get into the patent history; probably a real mud pie...

Can I still get hold of the Polychoke people and find out how their ribs are/were attached? My "Lion" deserves a better one or none at all (I don't have a problem with ribless O/Us; have shot Savage/Valmet 330s without ribs and a low-end Beretta. Didn't make much difference in my lousy shooting...).

I just remembered that my first O/U was a Savage 330 12 ga.!
And here is an aukward looking scan (across two pages) from Jan/Feb 1992 Shooting Sportman of the 20 ga custom Savage with straight-grip Turkish walnut and metal refinish!

Best,
Steve