doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Krupp barrel composition

I've had a project or 2 there and it's a little North of Lynchburg.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I may not have attached the correct Hayward A. Harvey patent, so here's another attempt: http://www.google.com/patents?id=lv0-AAA...cad=0_0#PPA1,M1

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

PeteM;
That's the one. I was interviewing for a Machinist Apprenticeship the day John F Kennedy was shot. Started it in Jan 1964 & put in a total of about 10 years there. Another 25 was spent at a smaller Co (Micro Craft Inc, Tullahoma TN) engaged in the model making buisness for the Aerospace Industry.

By the early to mid 1890s, quality gun tubes were composed of crucible nickel steel(elastic limit of approx. 62k psi) and Krupp held the secret and the skilled labour to produce it. The crucible nickel steel could be associated with "Fluss Stahl" while the "Guss Stahl" was probably plain ole cast steel with some of the required components for a quality tube but were present by accident only. Sometime near 1903/1904 Special Weapons Grade tubes(Spezial Gewehr Lauf Stahl) were on the scene and for now I suspect chromium or something of that nature had been added to the crucible nickel steel. If anyone has a dated example that would narrow the date of Spezial Gewehr Lauf Stahl, I'd like to know it. Or if someone has info on it's composition that would be great. And NIROSTA followed in 1912 when Krupp definitely had a handle on the components of steel and their percentages.

Essen was king when it came to crucible nickel steel and by the mid 1890s there were between 35k and 36k folks empolyed and you can multiply that number by at least 3 to include the families. It was a self sufficient facilty where meat, bread, manufactured goods, haberdashery all were peddled within the compound. Friedrich Krupp, son of Alfred Krupp, laid out the compound with very accurate detail seeing each structure, tree, etc. were the mirror image of the one beside it. Houses had the same number of windows and in the same position. There were smaller sects within the compound such as Westend, Nordhof, Baumhof, Schederhof, Kronenbert/Cronenberg, Alfredshof, Altenhof(retired, disabled workers).

There was also the Annen Steel Works which employed about 900 folks.

Krupp also acquired a proving grounds as well as a port area to completely construct a ship with no outside assistance. Grusonwerk at Magdeburg-Buckau was the proving ground with about 4800 workers where shields, turrets and like were made and tested. Germaniawerft at Kiel-Garden was where the ships were made and it had at least 3500 workers.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

If anyone has an Ithaca or Fox with Krupp steel tubes, I'd ask that you post a pic of the mark. For now I don't think the tubes were made in Essen, but probably made at Bethlehem Steel where circa 1900 Captain A.E. Piorkowski as the official Krupp representative. Ingots of crucible nickel steel and/or the licensed process was probably the means or source of the tubes. And another thing, does any of the examples have the preliminary proofmark; were the marks removed, etc. In the early 1880s, the U.S. of A. attempted to gain access to the Krupp facility at Essen but Alfred Longsdon of London, Krupp's agent, denied the request.

The Mannesmann brother attempted to get a foothold in the U.S. of A. with the assistance of Colonel A.A. Pope in 1894 and then the acquisition/merger which in 1896 formed the Mannesmann Cycle Tube Company of Adams , Mass. but it folded in 1898.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, here are a couple of pics of Fox C Grade, no. 2004. Underside of the barrels show Krupp Essen.

Mr. Hallquist:

Thanks for the effort and that may answer one of my questions. About what year was the Fox completed? But the German folks were/are a proud lot and similar to the LLH stamp I would expect to see a set of initals on at least a few sets. Are there any Fox or Ithaca records that note where the fluid steel tubes were acquired?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Carnegie and Bethlehem Steel( http://www.bethlehempaonline.com/bethsteel.html ) Companies paid a undisclosed mint + $45/ton for the Krupp steel plate license - NY Times Nov. 7th, 1897:
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9A00E5DA123CE433A25754C0A9679D94669ED7CF .

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, the Fox was of 1905 vintage. I have had guns , or seen guns , with the Krupp Essen name. I have even seen guns with Krupp on the underside, but with lesser steels like names from Baker Gun and Forging catalogs stamped on the top of the breech. This all happened in the 1910-15 period when barrels were hard to come by from Europe. Apparently , if they had an order, they would deliver the gun with barrels, but not necessarily the steel advertised. In this case, better steel.

Mr. Hallquist:

Thanks for the info/effort.

Parkers, Western Field, etc. any U.S. of A. maker with the Krupp option may provide insight. I'm really curious how the tariffs of circa 1900 affected raw products, semi-raw products and finished products with gun tubes being the product of concern. The U.S. of A. was consuming a whole lot of Krupp crucible steel(engines, etc.) and I am also curious what form it arrived in the states.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse