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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,774 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,774 Likes: 1 |
Drilling 2x16g + 8x57JR belonged to Leonid Brejnev according to the text on plate: 'To dear Leonid Brejnev from G.D.R. communists.December 19, 1976' Thre is sign on top rib OTTO-PREUSSNER,HAYNAU 1/SCHL I didn't see the sign myself, not sure about is it right or not. Any familiar with this maker or seller? 
Geno.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,737 Likes: 96
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,737 Likes: 96 |
Geno, I would have expected it to have been of higher quality as a gift to a major Politician.
By the way, I was in your city last year (second visit) your Metro system is an adventure. Love the place. Lagopus.....
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 265
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 265 |
It has top grade steel for the barrels Witten Excelsior and is pre-war for sure as the rifle was made for the 8x57 JR(IR). There seems to be lots of chatter about this piece on the Russian Webs. I am not familiar with the maker but it is certainly not a low class drilling. Since most of Suhl was destroyed by the Allies, the existing arms and components taken or crushed and the equipment and manufacturing process were taken under Soviet Rule, this is probably all they had.. to offer from a "pre-war" quality perspective. In the 1970s, Simson and a few others were in business but the quality was not at all like it was in the 40s and prior. http://www.huntclub.ru/cgi/bbs/guns?r=112362&l=11738Did it just surface? Is it in a museum?
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,774 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,774 Likes: 1 |
The gun location is Ukrane, where Brejnev used to work for a long time and it seems the gun been presented to somebody over there.
Geno.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,889 Likes: 201
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,889 Likes: 201 |
Looks to be made by one of the Otto boys of Zella St. Blasii or Zella-Mehlis such as Friedrich, Fritz, Paul or Richard. The scattergun tubes are Witten but the rifle is Krupp made by either Schilling or Schlegelmilch. I wish we could rotate the pic to see the text on the oval. Also with a 200gr bullet weight with a steel jacket I would vote for the 8X57R/360.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Last edited by ellenbr; 01/25/09 03:19 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,774 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,774 Likes: 1 |
Good point, Raimey, it might be .360 case.
Geno.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,889 Likes: 201
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,889 Likes: 201 |
A chamber cast will tell the tale but just from the marks it looks to be an 8x57R/360. The I(Infanterie/Infantry which lead to a "J"-0.318" where S-Spitzgeschoss? was 0.323" or 8.23+/-0.02mm at weights of 10.3g & 9.7g standarized to 8.22mm) rounds were 170, 178 grains and 227 grains. There were some S rounds at 196, 198(12.8g) grains and there may have been some I rounds near 200 grains(someone correct me). Also I would say Hermann Schlegelmilch of Zella-Mehlis made at least the rifle tube. There was a Hermann Schlegelmilch of Suhl but I think he was a stock man and if one of the Otto boys made it he could have easily sourced tubes from Schlegelmilch. I don't see any Nitro stamps on the scattergun tubes and I assume they are on the sides which would probably date it between 1912 and WWI. There looks to be a stamp or 2 at the top left of the receiver which looks to be a "U" and circle? Also are those letters near thet selector switch and if so what does it spell?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
Last edited by ellenbr; 01/25/09 05:37 PM.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,381 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,381 Likes: 1 |
the plate if probably fake. i do not think this piece belonged to leonid b.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,774 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,774 Likes: 1 |
Looks like Otto is first name and he was seller. What I found in the net (Bablefish translation): Otto Preussner
Geno.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,763 Likes: 8
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,763 Likes: 8 |
Good research work, Geno.
Regards,
Jani
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