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Jul 28th, 2025
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Joined: Sep 2008
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Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Sep 2008
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All right guys I need some help. I love over and unders and always have. I bought what I feel was a nice piece a few months back. It’s either a nice custom piece with no value or something really special, either way I like it but would love to know more about it. All right, it is a 12 gauge made in Italy by Antonio Belleri or Belleri Antonio with the inscriptions Ponte Zanano V.T. < Brescia> and Made in Italy all on the left side of the top barrel. On the other side is written up-
[list]
[*]nullside down “ACIER ROELHER BLITZ”. Then there is a personal engraving to the guy he made it for, which probably kills any value it might have had. It has matching serial numbers in at least three places but I don’t know how to use the Italian firearms code stuff.
The gun appears to be either nickel or silver plated (Im just an armorer not a gunsmith) so I can’t tell. It also says on the barrel that it is chrome steel and close to that area there is a star. Gun is in fairly decent shape I think with scratches here and there and I don’t think it has been fired for 20 or so years. I wiped it down with some Militec and am planning to detail it later. Anyway, no one can give me any info on this piece but a Beretta instructor I had in Maryland did prove to me that this guy’s son (Belleri) is still a gunsmith for Beretta and I was told by the seller that the father was a gunsmith for Beretta in Italy and did this gun himself on his own time. Can anyone tell me what I have and who Belleri Antonio is? I would greatly appreciate anything you guys can give me.
Much thanks,
Airborne All the Way
Seth
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,409 Likes: 4 |
There is no mention of this name is The Italian Gun by Smith and Morrow. It seems strange to find word 'Acier' on barrels of Italian gun. Never heard of barrel steel from Roelher either. There is Bohler Bros. light steel, Rohr, Roeschlings, but I don't seem to recall name you have mentioned.  Your only hope lies with 'Italo' that can understand works written by Marco Nobili.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,350 |
There is also no mention of the name and place in the index of Beretta's comprehensive book published on its 475th anniversary, The World of Berreta, An International Legend.
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Boxlock
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Thank you brother. I guess I'll just have to keep digging. Im fairly sure it is Italian but thats all I am sure of. Thanks for looking and the input. I really appreciate it. I think Im going to focus on the butt end of the stock. He used a red dog head emblem- maybe that was his trademark or something. Oh well!!
Thanks again
Seth
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2003
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Rigger, if you strike out here (which I seriously doubt--keep checking) try "The Italian Gun" forum over on http://www.gunboards.com also. You might strike lucky over there. Pictures of the proof marks and the gun itself would also help, on both forums. Failing that, a complete description of markings on the gun and their locations would also be helpful. Barrel steel marking is almost certainly "Boehler," a common and excellent German-supplied steel ("Boehler Blitz" = Boehler Lightning).
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
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Acciaio is Italian for steel. Acier is French. Ponte Zanano is a tiny village that is less than 2 km from Beretta's main operations. It was very common for Italian makers to source the barrels from many different countries. This was true of Beretta as well. There is an Antonio Belleri on GunsAmerica. http://www.gunsamerica.com/976612579/Guns/Shotguns/Saiga-Shotguns/Shotguns/Antonio_Belleri.htmHere are the Italian date codes:  Pete
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Boxlock
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Thats it, you guys have convinced me that he bought the barrels from Germany but I am sticking to my guns and say that he lived in and crafted the gun in Gardone Italy. There were a lot of small shops like this scattered throughout Italy especially around the Beretta factory.I wish I had a web page so I could show some of these pictures. The gunsmithing does seem to be top notch. I like his designs. Ah well, I will keep plugging along. Thanks everyone for the help. You guys are making a lot of sense.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 940 Likes: 6
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 940 Likes: 6 |
Rigger,
It is not uncommon to find high-quality Boehler steel barrels on Italian guns. (My modern Beretta ASE has Boehler antinit steel barrels for example.)
Just a guess that the "V.T." in the name may represent Val Trompia, the valley north of Brescia that contains Gardone and other small Italian villages.
Ken
- You can host your photos for free on sites like photobucket.com and then link them here.
Last edited by Ken Georgi; 10/01/08 02:00 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,107 Likes: 381 |
Boehler steel is Austrian from Kapfenberg, Styria( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapfenberg ) . I wouldn't mix the terms German and Boehler unless it's a German gun with Austrian tubes or an Austrian/Bohemian gun with German tubes. Both countries were dependent on finite sources for components and companies like Sauer and Simson are German examples with Krupp steel tubes almost exclusively coming from Sauer but I'm not sure of who made the tubes of Boehler steel. I. Meffert used Ehrhardt lauf tubes( http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Rheinmetall-Berlin-AG-Company-History.html ) and I'm sure there are other examples. I'm also sure that a few companies had the monoploy. Brothers Boehler began peddling other's steel products in the late 1800s and info can be found here: http://www.bohlersteel.com/ . Many Bohemian guns have Boehler steel (select "Brand" from the lefthand tab and then "Tradition"). Ken is correct on the V.T. because in 1930 the Brescia proofhouse was temporarly moved to Gardone Val Trompia with the proofhouse at the Beretta facility. The "star" may be an indication of choke. Pics would help tell the tale. Kind Regards, Raimey rse
Last edited by ellenbr; 10/01/08 01:53 PM.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 940 Likes: 6 |
Thanks for the correction Raimey. Boehler is Austrian, not German.
Ken
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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 Pete
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,660 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,660 Likes: 7 |
As Raimey accurately points out Boehler or as it is spelled really Böhler steel comes from Austria. It is not at all strange to have an Italian double with Böhler Antinit steel barrels. My Beretta S3EL has them. I would think that Böhler supplied the steel and the tubes were made in the Brescia region. In the case of Beretta I suppose they made the barrels themselves. I'd add that that steel was used for the best range of guns. As far as signor Belleri is concerned I have found this so far: Church in Ponte Zanano:  Here there are several email adresses on the left side, and Antonio Belleri is named at the bottom (Economia), where they list the different activities, as a maker of shotguns. Maybe someone there can help: Valtrompia News JC P.S.: Pictures of the gun would really help. jc
"...it is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance." Charles Darwin
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Joined: Sep 2008
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Boxlock
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Thanks JC. That is pretty cool. I will try and put some of these photos up on that photbucket you guys said tonight. Im having trouble capturing the inscriptions with the camera but I will give it a shot.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,660 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,660 Likes: 7 |
Hello Seth,
I thought it would be nice to see the surroundings where your double was made.
Concerning the pictures, try to use a tripod and a couple of lamps for proper lighting.
If your camera has a macro feature (usually designated in the menu with a flower)
all the better.
JC
"...it is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance." Charles Darwin
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,660 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,660 Likes: 7 |
Seth, here is a list of Italian gunmakers where I could find four Belleris: Luigi, Antonio, Livio and Angelo. Italian Database . At the bottom of the list there is an email link for Edoardo Mori, in charge of the website, who can surely help you. Sending him pictures will surely help. (There is also Giuseppe Belleri (born 1934) engraver mentioned in a book by Mario Abbiatico.) JC
"...it is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance." Charles Darwin
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Seth, did you try Edoardo Mori?
JC
"...it is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance." Charles Darwin
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