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#95365 05/18/08 07:43 PM
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Here are a few doubles. I don't know much about them. They have been in the family for quite a few years.
Ithaca Hammerless 12 ga


W.W.Greener 12ga




And the Kirkwood 10ga


DMacLeod #95367 05/18/08 07:52 PM
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The Ithaca is a Crass model, Looks as it either a 1 or 1P

Last edited by Walter C. Snyder; 05/18/08 08:00 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Walter C. Snyder
The Ithaca is a Crass model, Looks as it either a 1 or 1P


Thanks Walter. It has a 1P stamped on the water table. (I think that is what the flat part of the reciever is called)

DMacLeod #95372 05/18/08 08:16 PM
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McPhail should chime in soon on the Kirkwood. The Greener looks to have laminated tubes. Maybe stub twist on the Crass.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Last edited by ellenbr; 05/18/08 08:22 PM.
ellenbr #95375 05/18/08 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: ellenbr
McPhail should chime in soon on the Kirkwood. The Greener looks to have laminated tubes.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse


McPhail posted about this one a few months ago. He was very informative. The pics I posted before were lost somehow.

Not to sound dumb but... laminated barrels?? Is that a term used in Damascus?

DMacLeod #95402 05/18/08 11:24 PM
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DMacLeod:

I didn't catch it right off that the Kirkwood was a previous post. Both Laminated and Damascus are pattern welded tubes. Maybe it is just semantics, but there are differences depending on whose definition you use. The short of it from W.W. Greener is that Damascus has 3 rods and Laminated has 2.

The long of it which is probably a pre-"Gunnery in 1858" definition is to take "mild steel scraps" from saws, pen making, coach springs and tools and polish them in a drum until shiny. Using an air furnace, much like the Sir Henry Bessemer process, fuse the parts together in a bloom. Then commence whaling on it with a 3 ton forge tilt hammer making a large square bar which is to experience the rolling mill in reducing to the desired size. Bundle and weld a number of the processed rods together and let them experience the rolling mill once again. The resulting rods will be giving to the barrel makers who will fab the tubes.

A text of Gunnery in 1868, which didn't materialize due to W. Greener's death, can be found in "Modern Breech Loaders"(circa 1870) which refers to the following method as "modern plan". Bundle in an alternating pattern 6 iron and 6 steels bars of the same size, weld them and send them thru the rolling mill reducing their size. The result is a set of square bars that will be supplied to the barrel welders. For some reason, W.W. Greener notes that the lot can be "converted into damascus" by using a head of a "kind of lathe" which is fixed on one end.

Rule of thumb: Laminated usually doesn't have the fine detail as Damascus.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Last edited by ellenbr; 05/18/08 11:26 PM.
ellenbr #95435 05/19/08 08:27 AM
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D Macleod you wouldn't happen to live in Galveston would you. Maybe a Marine in earlier life.

Amigo Will #95450 05/19/08 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted By: Amigo Will
D Macleod you wouldn't happen to live in Galveston would you. Maybe a Marine in earlier life.


No, I was Army. Live in Stoughton, MA

DMacLeod #95457 05/19/08 11:46 AM
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David Kirkwood Boston 1881-97, Hammerless with cocking indicators
Damascus bbls-have never seen Kirkwood with laminated bbls, Very
nice gun. Serial #?
Thanks for the picture
Bill McPhail


J W McPhail
Phail #95496 05/19/08 05:00 PM
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Hi Bill, the serial # is 1001

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