doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 2-inch 12 versus 16-bore in the uplands

Bob, I'm thinking that's due in large measure to the guy pulling the trigger on that little Lindner, and to the fine dogs that alert him as to Mr. Ringneck's presence.

Don, have you ever put an Ithaca SKB Model 100 20ga, 25" barrels, on your machine? They're quite common, and they seem to have almost a cult following among grouse hunters. Personally, I've owned a few, and while they always "feel" good, I don't do well at all with them at skeet. Make that a Model 200 or 280 20ga with 25" barrels, different story. The additional weight from the beavertail (plus maybe some from the ejectors) seems to smooth out the swing. However . . . in the grouse woods, swing is not as critical as it is on open country birds. Which is why I think quite a few grouse hunters gravitate in the direction of short, light doubles.

"Do 2-inch 12s actually throw the wonderful, flat, and even patterns as they are reported to do? Does anyone know where this might have been documented?"

Shot is shot and once it's out of the bore it's all really the same and bore/length has in reality nothing to do with any patterning or perceived time of shot arriving on target.
I have had a 1949 H&H 2" in hand but the asking price was simply way too high.
There are Purdey's around but I haven't seen one or better still had one in my hands, yet.
My 1941 A&F 2" box lock (Tolley gun at 5# 13oz) is listed in the same A&F period catalog I have with 2" Purdey's offered by A&F.
A joy to carry, recoil is sharp with GameBore 2" loads.
I much prefer a 5# 9oz 16 gauge Fox that CSMC built for me as it's to my dimensions, single trigger but that has nothing to do with the gauge/bore.
The 2" Arietta's are simply very heavy and do not have any of the attributes of a true Brit 2".
FWIW they are NOT making any more Brit 2" box lock guns, maybe H&H or Purdey would make you one if you came up with $$$$$. Let me repeat in case anyone reads any drivel on any website, they are not making any more 2" Brit box locks.
So if you just want a 2" Brit gun and you find a decent example, purchase it but it will not do anything a 16 will do and the other way around.
I haven't read the 16 ga Forum for years and I like 16 gauge guns!-Dick

RCC: I have seen a handful of Lindner's guns and all have been of exceptional quality (my Grandfather had one that didn't come my way). I have heard that he made "lightweight" guns, but have never gotten close to one. Yours sounds quite lovely!

Mr. Brown: You are correct about the grouse woods being different than open country. Quick, light guns are the best answer there, more often than not.

I live out in the wide open. I don't find the light short guns any great handicap - especially when I am shooting over pointing dogs.

If I was going to shoot 200 targets at an ATA trapshoot no doubt an 8-1/2 pound 12 gauge with 32" barrels has major advantages over my 5-1/2 pound 26" Parker 16.

Although this doesn't add anything to the discussion, Mark Reynolds has a pair of higher grade 2" guns for sale. Purdey Pair

Ken

I have been intrigud by the two inch 12 and I'm NOT a 12ga person. Jay Schacter of Vintage Firearms has a very nice Turner (I believe) 2 inch for sale. While It's interesting it's not interesting enough to me to shell out the cash for it. IF I was to ever buy one my next purchase would be to RST for about 4 cases of shells. I load all 2.5 inch shells for 12,16, 20 & 410 but wouldn't want to get set up for 2 inchers.

I'm a big fan of the 16 and have way more than I can use in a season. Being primarily a Grouse hunter I like the shorter barrels and open chokes of a skeet gun. Going into bird season I bought a Parker DH 16 on an 0 frame with 26 inch Damascuss bbls and with 7/8oz of shot have taken Grouse, Woodcock and Pheasants with it.

At the end of the day I doubt any upland bird could tell the difference of being shot by either the 2 inch 12 or a 16 with 2 1/2 inch shells all else being equal,.......however I'm still intrigued by the short 12.

Since nobody has pointed me to the literature, perhaps what I have been told over the years about 2-inch guns is mythical? I swear I read something (many years ago) about somebody doing patterning on 12-gauge loads out of 10-gauge bores and extrapolating the lovely patterns to the 2-inch gun. Perhaps it was a sales pitch? All I know is how nice these guns feel when I pick them up and how unusual-looking the little RST shells seem when you hold them in your hand. I have no-problem imagining how they would feel in my hands on a glorious October day. Something to work towards, I suppose.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I've done the 12 gauge loads out of a 10 gauge experiments, and as a result I have completely shelved my 12 gauge guns for waterfowl. However, since I am nobody, and have never published those results, my findings are irrelevant, and are only for me to enjoy which I am more than ok with.

Like I also said, when using smaller shot (#6 and smaller), and lighter payloads (1 oz. and lighter) I've found the difference is negligible between 12, 16, and 20 gauge guns. If you want to shoot 1 oz loads of # 7 1/2 shot out of a 2" 12 gauge or a 16 gauge, you will find almost no difference in pattern uniformity. Although, I would agree the 2" 12 gauge is a much more interesting gun, that would command many hours of conversation over the life your ownership.

Lloyd,

Pattern work is interesting and can produce as many points to debate, yea even argue as the curious minds that study them. Branch all that into patterns from different gauges and it could produce all sorts of claims, factual and fictitious.

I read your question or maybe more correctly read into your question , a sought for answer of how one stacked up to the other.

In any case I too have heard it said forever that the short 12 gauge shell produces the most square pattern.

In the Uplands, I really don't think claims of patterns matters much. It has been my experience that modern shells all pattern well enough to kill grave yard dead when shot at the front half of a bird.

A good dog that can trail and retrieve, makes less good shooting look good.