doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Pre-1917 Russian 20ga hammer sxs?

A local dealer has FS a 20 ga hammer sxs which we have identified (by the T in a circle and triangle mark) as coming from the Tula (Russia) arms factory. My research leads me to believe it's what they called a "Model B". I'm thinking it's pre-1917 because the workmanship is too nice to have been made during socialism. It's a WWII GI bringback.

Anyone ever seen one? Does anyone have any idea what it's worth other than as a generic hammergun?

I've seen a whole bunch of them over here. They did make a few quite nice guns during the socialism era, by the way. There is a sure way to tell - the Pre-Revolution guns will have the two-headed eagle stamps over the barrels, and the "Императорский Тульский Петра Великого Оружейный Завод" inscription (in the pre-1917 orthography I can't imitate here) on the rib. Unless it is one of the bespoke guns made before the introduction of Model B, in which case it is even more rare. A few pictures sure wouldn't hurt.

I've seen no double-headed eagles on the barrels, so I guess it's sometime 1917-1945. I'll see about getting pictures.

About 7 years ago I saw a very nice 12 gauge hammer gun made by the Tula armory. The guy who owned said that he bought it new from Sears back in the 60's.
Steve

I'll have to dig deep in the safe, but I have a pre-war 20 gauge model B made in the Tula factory. I bought mine and had no idea what it was 15 years ago.

We have a very knowledgable member here (Geno) from Russia and he is the one that ID'd mine when I first posted about it. I don't recall all of the info he shared off hand, but to paraphrase... he said they were built like a tank, not too common in small bore, and very desireable "shooters" over in Russia.

I'm sure he'll chime in here soon, but good pics are needed for sure. I'll dig mine out later and post pics for reference.

The gun would have to have a bit of a history, if it is indeed from the between-the-wars period and brought back by a GI in 45. It was common for Soviet guns to be brought to the Free World by individuals in between 1957 and 1976, and for a short time right after 1991, but this one is a pretty rare bird.

By the way, did it have fences around the strikers, and the Purdey-type button fore-end?

Also, you might want to check out the gun's weight. TOZ had a variation of 20 gauge doubles that weighed around 8 pounds. Those were a fruit of creative thought by a gun guru Ivaschentsev (the same guy that was behind the Buturlin-Matzka Paradox story), and are really a something in terms of wall thickness. Yet they are well-balanced, so the weight doesn't feel.

An yes, the TOZ hummer guns were officially imported to the USA/Canada at a time around the 1970's. I think they came only in 12 gauge, with either regular 725 mm barrels or with 510-mm barrels for cowboy action shooting, but I could be wrong here.

I'll go out one day this week, get pictures and try to figure out how to post them. It does have a Purdey-style button fore-end. I'm not sure what you mean by "fences around the strikers", so I'll have to say I don't know. I've handled and looked it over and it most certainly does not weigh 8 lb - it's a lot closer to 5 than 8. The barrels are 28 and a fraction inches, so they could be either 71 or 72.5 cm.

I did write down the marks on the flats. Serial number, if you'e interested, is 506XX-1. The "-1" is on the barrel flat. The same serial number 506XX appears on the inside of the forend, but with a "-6" suffix.

The model number (taken from the flat of the left barrel) appears to be MB-20. Below the model number, it appears to show a 70mm chamber - the inscription says P (Russian "pi") 70. Choke in the left barrel ("YOK") shows 15,6 over a line over 15,0, which I take to be a light full. Choke in the right barrel appears to be cylinder, as there is no "YOK" marking but it does show 15,6.

There are more marks but they're all in Russian script.

Photos are needed.

Now with pictures! In this album http://s1087.photobucket.com/albums/j478/DaveinMaine/