doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Lead shot ban in Washington

For anyone interested, there is a proposed lead shot ban for upland and mourning dove hunting on state wildlife land in Washington. The State's concern is that wildlife is ingesting lead at the pheasant release sites, and they are using this as a springboard to close all wildlife lands. The public comment period is open until Feb 20.

I hunt with a couple of older small bore LC Smiths and would find this difficult as essentially all of my upland hunting is on state wildlife lands. I personally could use other guns and shoot steel, but man do I love those Elsies. I would welcome others input on this issue. Should I just go with "classic doubles" shot? Is there another low pressure 2-1/2" alternative? Rob.

Like fries fried in lard, like raw dough, like licking off the cake batter... another tradition of our childhood gone prrruuutsch under the overbearing regulatory eye of the state.

I don't believe for a minute in the conclusive evidence presented in testimony of this action. Lead is everywhere, all over the place - how else do you think ancient civilizations had the stuff before most contemporary metals? Ounces of pellet shots tossed around in nature don't amount to much. Much less than the faintly veiled attempt at beating down the second amendment. What next?

Is lead cool in certain amounts? well yes. So what? is it only the privilege of municipalities to allow themselves the use of toxic lead in the water and sewer distribution systems? Hello Chicago. It would be nice to see our free choice preserved; we're no dumber than our rulers and certainly not dumber than the upland wildlife.

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Though I don't know, I think that plastic coated tungsten carbide can work because it is even heavier than lead. Maybe?

SixBears,
You have just written three paragraphs expressing your views that Lead is not a bad thing.
Then in your last paragraph you roll over and suggest an alternative.
This reminds me of the shooting community of the Greatest Nation in the World rolling over and accepting a toxic shot ban based on false science.
Whilst the same Nation along with China & India pollute the atmosphere with a total disregard for fellow man.

Is this new science? Save a bird and choke a child?
BAN THE LEADSHOT BAN NOW.

Rob, I hunt grouse with an Elsie field 20ga C/F and consider it as elegant a gun as any on the rack---including a Specialty 12. I reload bismuth. I can't bring myself to use steel in any gun.

My thoughts on lead are simply this: I fight the wars as others but defer to the lead edict on waterfowl; it's not here yet on upland. I don't consider the cost of non-toxic prohibitive, considering my other interests.

It's kind of like being in love. I defer to my dear wife in most things because she defers to me. Otherwise, life cannot be all we want it to be: truly living and loving, alive and burning to the end.

Well Salopian, at least we haven't rolled over on gun ownership.

FnF, I agree with you. Banning lead because of the danger it poses to upland birds isn't bad science; it's essentially NO science. There is some data on doves, and lead shot restrictions on public areas which are popular dove hunting sites may make sense. However, here are a couple of interesting sentences straight out of the "Report of the Nontoxic Shot Advisory Committee" to the Minnesota DNR: (I think you can access the entire report on the MN DNR website.)

"Conclusive proof regarding the effects of lead shot on other upland game populations is lacking, but the topic has received little study to date."

"Furthermore, it is unlikely that conclusive data can ever be obtained due to the cost of this type of research."

Translation of the above: "We don't have the data and aren't likely to ever have the data, but we think banning lead is a good idea anyhow because it might be harmful."

If a lead ban is imposed, Kent does make 2 1/2" shells with Tungsten Matrix. Better stuff than steel anyhow, and barrel friendly--but expensive as hell.

If you love those LCs so much - [censored]-up a storm!
Write, call or email all you can.
The banning of lead for waterfowl, was the first step in banning our guns.
When the FEMA camp guards come for you, they'd like to know that even grandpa's old shotgun has been rendered useless because of steel and the cost of no-tox.

These doves winter in South American countries, Do they use steel in those places. There are many Americans who flock to places like Argentina and shoot in more concentrated areas. Then the doves fly north, we examine them and declare it came from hear. You can have all the guns you want, you just can't shoot them. Rich

All tongue in cheek, I am surprised no one shot manufacturer has yet proposed to use solid gold shot: it would be great, it is exactly as heavy as tungsten carbide - which is almost twice that of lead - while pure gold is as soft and gentle on our guns as lead is. For chilled lead, use 18 carat gold. Ahem. It's just the cost that may be a problem but in this age of bail-out money tossing regulators why would that give them a hangover? -They'd be bent out of shape because any metal alternatives would all be just as harmless and natural as lead. Lead, bismuth, copper, steel, tungsten, uranium (before it is made radioactive) are all natural all harmless to the environment.

The world survived just fine through the excesses of world wars and who knows how much stuff was tossed around. Europe uses much solid lead in modern roofing products without a problem. Our municipal water systems are all patched together with lead without a problem. Exquisite crystal goblets made of one quarter solid lead can be drunk from without a problem. Again, lead is a naturally occurring element - that fact that we just want to spread it around a bit should be lauded in today's political environment.



My last words originally really only meant I find new methods always interesting. Nothing more than that. I do not agree with the banning of any type of shot, lead included. I do not agree with the concept that we cause pollution - no more than beef causes the flaming eruption of a cow pie - no more than natural tree leaves litter my front lawn - no more than an earthly mud slide causes a giant mess. Messes, we clean up. The only thing we are suffering of is regulatory pollution.

I had meant to link my tungsten shot line to an analogy with William Tell's story who, when confronted with the regulatory whims of the government bailiff on how to use his two arrows, suggested the alternate shot was meant for Gessler himself -should the first one have caused a ban.

Thanks for showing me how it all seemed I was rolling over. I am not. Not voluntarily.

6B

Larry, it's a myth the United States is the citadel of gun ownership. It's easier to buy and sell a gun, send it from sea to sea to sea, than it is in the US, from what I've been reading for as long as I've been a member here.

We have a gun registry. I can go to a show or any place and decide on a purchase or trade, phone the registry , the transaction is done in five minutes and I take the gun home, crossing if necessary every provincial border.

I can do the deal from my residence. Make the call, the computers whirl, the gun is mine.

As for rolling over, the US has more restrictions on civil liberties that are taken for granted in many other countries. Canada and the US are different. We chose different values concerning liberty and gun ownership.

That Canadians made those choices in their legislatures as the will of the people does not imply they are wiser or greater defenders of liberty or gun ownership. This notion the US knows best for others has just been repudiated by its citizens.

Regards, King

OT but related: The latest ban in CA is on brass in plumbing fixtures that carry potable water. I think it kicks in next January, but will mean that no one can sell bathroom or kitchen faucets with brass valves or spouts, unless sleeved with plastic or copper. Means higher costs, shorter component life, and almost impossible repairs down the road. It seems that the legislators are out to screw the public in every possible way, based upon bad science or no science, or just on their personal agendas.