A kind collector in Sweden made me aware of a W. Eblen Stuttgart Blitz action Vierling at Steve Barnett's:
http://www.stevebarnettfineguns.com/frm_inventory1.htm (select the Drilling/Combo tab then 12682)










Baumgarten, you need to add this one to your W. Eblen collection so we can have a gander at the marks.


Schienendrilling/Waldläufer/Woods Loafer/Off Season Drilling

with Schienen noting top rib. Axel informed us that early on that the term Schienendrilling was a trademark of E. Schmidt & Habermann as well as the W. Eblen/Stremple 7x75R von Hofe SE:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post234235

A sourcing relationship may have existed between an Eblen & one of the Jung craftsmen of Zella-Mehlis. Or it may be that there was a Waffen Jung operated by Paul Jung & Söhne in Stuttgart since 1854 with W. Eblen possibly sourcing back to Suhl or Zella-Mehlis via a Jung to Jung connection.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

Thank you for your thoughts on Eblen's sourcing, interesting stuff.

I've already checked out Mr. Barnett's Eblen vierling and there is something about the stock that doesn't look right to me. With that at $17,500.00 he likes it way better than I do. You'll note he has an interesting drilling in his offerings as well, even pricier than the vierling:

http://www.gunsinternational.com/ANTON-S...un_id=100243687

Regards,

Buchseman

That's the slickest Vierling I've ever seen....not that I've seen many. Thanks for posting that Raimey!

And with Axle's input of the Robert Eblen sourcing of Edgar Strempel, it just may be that in the late 1920s, or by at least 1930, post WWI the next truly exceptional mechanic with an eye for quality like H. Scherping, H.A. Lindner, etc. is in fact Edgar Stremple. Info in quite elusive for the moment but it would seem he cottons to the side frame reinforcement and post WWII must have had a stash of Simson components, with which he was able thru BüHag( sales co-op Büchsenmacher Handels Gesellschaft) was able to offer upper rung offerings. Seems he was active till 1970 or the mid 1970s and was sourced by Heinrich Münch of Aachen at some point. I'll have to closely smoke over Heinrich Münch's examples for similarities.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Is the bronzed color of the action just leftover case colors, or is it one of the bronze action bodies?

I was hoping someone had an answer. Maybe gold wash?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

An A.(August?) Seeber with Novotny on the scope. Similar configuration but different selector.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The chamber walls are sure bare minimum between the shotgun and the small bore. Very lovely piece.

An interesting DR in 9.3x74 1/2R, possibly made, but peddled by Eduard Kettner Suhl with the tradename Marke Rhenus on one of the tubes topped by an Oigee Luxor 4x. "Marke Rhenus" was a tradename of Eduard Kettner and he advertises in 1908/1909 as being his new mark of quality. Protection for the term Marke Rhenus may have been sought in 1908/1909 if not earlier. Odd that it doesn't have any cocking indicators that I can tell.






Most interesting are the initials E.S. over W.K. If, if the initials E.S. belong to Edgar Strempel Suhl, it makes one speculate a dual effort by E.S. & W.K. sourced from the same shop. And with that could Edgar Strempel been an employee of Wilhelm Kelber concern. Paul Schlegelmilch & Franz Schüler were employees but I haven't previously seen any indication that Edgar Strempel passed thru the shop. Post WWII, Edgar Strempel was a gunsmith's gunsmith and was considered one of the best, if not the best, in his time. The April 1926 proof date may be one of the earliest examples with the initials E.S., if they are indeed for Edgar Strempel. A wild guess that he was born circa 1900/1901 and would have been a master by the mid 1920s. Sketchy info suggests he was active to the mid 1960s and from the mid-late 1960s a son-in-law by the name of Klaus Mehner who continued the business using the trademark StreSu(Franz Strempel Suhl?) till 1975, or thereabouts. Of course there are other options for E.S. and some stamps were script and some had an odd S.


These tube marks have plagued me for a time and I wonder if it is an intertwined RK, possibly for Rudolf Kelber but I am very unsure if Rudolf Kelber contributed any effort other than management?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

1892 Eduard Kettner Advert

Difficult to tell, but I don't see the trademark "Marke Rhenus" in this 1892 advert.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Lifted from "475 Jahre Suhl" - Gerd Manig, Dieter Schellenberger - 2002.

(Left)Independent gunsmith Edgar Strempel Suhl at his workbench in 1940.

Guess I need to invest in "475 Jahre Suhl" as it has 2 images of my favourites being Edgar Strempel and Gebhard Helmuthäuser, being a 1904 image with him as the chairman of the Suhler Männerchor(celebrating 75 years).

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I stumbled across some images that I had archived of a 1953 Edgar Strempel example with his trademark in the water table. Eduard Kettner was involved and more than likely was souring Edgar Strempel.




StreSu stamp


Kettner's Acorn on fore lug

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Baumgarten's Toprail drilling/bunny dispatcher/Schienendrilling/Waldläufer/Woods Loafer/Off Season Drilling with script EKk or EHk


Mr. Wes Fink's Charles Daly Regent Diamond which experienced proof in January 1931 and additional info can be found in GGCA Nr. 37 at page 9.

So, I'm on the hunt for sporting weapons wearing these EKk or EHk stamps.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

E H K

rgds
Günter

Interesting, as in German, independent is phrased as "self-standing" great fotos indeed,Danke mein Fruend!! Der Fuchs--

Francis:
Did you find your reading glasses? Seems you have been on the prowl as of late.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Wears EHk like the above.

http://www.jagdwaffensammler.de/drilling-schmidt-habermann/gruendig-drilling.html




Proofed in the final state, Carl Gründig waffenhändler.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
this Kettner Advertisement deals solely with his then new adjustable rifle stock which he had registered for a patent.

at the price of 'between 40 and 500 Mark' that seems to have been extremely expensive for the time.

He also says that his adjustable stock is different from the english 'trial stocks' which are only used to find the perfect fit for a shooter and then a stock is made accordingly.
His new 'adjustable stock' is just that: a stock that can be adjusted and then used.


Best regards
Günter

Raimey,

looking at these marks (RK?) - the top looks possibly like a 'G'
would 'GK' make any sense?

Best regards
Günter

Günter:
Yes, RK, Rudolf Kelber would make sense but I'll have to look at the possibilities for GK. At some point, possibly in the 1930s, a Erich Kelber looks to have paired with Wilhelm Kelber(Gewehrlauffabrikation), possibly his son?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

A Eduard Kettner vierling at auction:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=331229198












Interesting proof in the final state and what looks to be a 517 plug gauge over 35mm. I don't recall a 517 but there was a 527.





Maybe a script EK near the forend hanger?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Looks to be a set of JY stamps in addition to the K in a rhombus. Also, there just from the images which can be deceiving, 2 Kelber script L type stamps with one over the Crown over G on the lower rifled tube, when the light is just right.



I think the date to be 339, not 330, and for the moment I cannot work the 72 ledger number into the mix. Seems all the mechanics marks are from Suhl but I cannot see the scattergun tubes Nitro marks.


Supplemental Proof table

Raimey,
The Kettner has the look of a Meffert. Kettner mostly dealt in guns from other manufacturers. I suspect the 517 is not a ga. designation, this wouldn't fit with the case length(35mm),nor time period (well after 1912).It could instead be the bore dia.in mm, which would admittedly be very tight( 5.17 mm-0.2035", more common 5.3mm-0.2085")The 5.6x35 Vierling is sometimes encountered with very tight barrel.Not having the gun "in hand", I wouldn't bet the farm on it though.
Mike

Ford, I think the serial number to be a bit low for Meffert for the time. I'll have to revisit my notes but I'm pretty sure Axel has given that 0.22' & some Floberts were given as plug gauge stamps.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Ford, I thought the answer to be here

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post213570

But I don't see it with a surface scan. I may have confused it with the Crown over G possibilities.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
It looks like a Meffert to me.If I'm wrong, it's not the first time. I doubt that you can count on guns made by Meffert for someone else to be in their serial number range,I could be wrong.The link you gave doesn't give the answer. The 6mm Flobert didn't require a liscense, but the .22lr did.Anyway,the gun in question had the case length, for the barrel in question,shown as 35mm. The cartridge has to be 5.6x35R Vierling, which wouldn't fall under this. They didn't use the ga.designation of bore diameter with case length, as a general rule.Ga.designation of bore diameter stopped and case length stamp started in 1912. This gun was proofed considerably later than this.(Mauser did mark their .22s with the ga. in addition to 22 lang fur buschen, until the war.)
Mike

Crown over B, Crown over G
Crown over U
5,17 - Looks to be a comma
/
35

So Ford, indeed you may be correct unless my eyes are playing tricks on me.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse