I wish I could figure out how to post pictures here. I tried the instructions in the FAQ and all it would do is post the link to Photobucket but no pic. I'm doing something wrong I imagine.

Reason is I just acquired a nice little P.O. Ackley rifle, FN action dated 1948, in .257 Roberts. Lyman 48 sight and no scope mount holes. The very "crisp" recoil pad says "P.O. Ackley, Inc." and "Trinidad, Colo. " it has a 4 groove barrel and last night did a 1.5 inch 5 shot group with winchester 100 gr factory Silver tips. Perhaps not the best example of fine gunmaking, but a little bit of history nonetheless, and a nice little rifle from the period. I thought folks here might enjoy a few photos if I can figure out how to do it.

Would anyone here have any experience with similar rifles? This is the only one like it I've seen in 40 years. I'm sure they're reasonably common, but this is the first one I've run across.

[img]http:// http://s1083.photobucket.com/user/jherol...?sort=3&o=2[/img]

Ok then the link it is.

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My Martini Cadet is marked like this



I got it used at Great Falls Sporting Goods, Great Falls, Montana in 1972.

Mike

Thank you!!!! How did you do that?

OK,

you go to one picture at a time in Photobucket, to the right of the picture you will see IMG , click on IMG and the link to the right will say "Copied" for 1 second.
Bring you cursor back to this screen and post, then right click, select paste and it will post the link, then Submit

Mike

Okaaaay... I think maybe my biggest mistake may have been trying to do it from my phone. I don't think it has a right click. Yes I am a true dumba$$. Thanks.

Welcome to the dumba$$ club!

I consider Ackley products a class to themselves. The man was a real force in American firearms history. His products are inelegant for the most part, but just plain "workers."

…with good barrels, he was known as a barrel maker. That is the first of his recoil pads I've seen.
My best connection with Ackley was drinking at the watering hole across the street from his shop building on the fringe of Trinidad. The bar (unfortunately I can't' remember the name) was on my way home to the little village of Cokedale, CO.

4 groove barrel:



FN Receiver mfg date

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Top of action. No holes!

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That's a very neat rifle, cool action, good sights and a great cartridge. Wonderful accuracy!
I built and shot a few .257 Roberts rifles a while back and found the Federal factory load with Nosler Partition bullets so accurate I quit handloading .257. Unfortunately I sold the Dakota #10 .257 R I built for myself simply because I needed the money. The fellow the bought it shot a fine Texas whitetail using that Federal ammo last fall.

Thanks SDH-MT. I thought it was a bit unique. Like you, I've never seen one of those recoil pads either. The one here is totally hard and "boiled over," so I'm not even going to try to remove it. It wouldn't survive, I'm afraid and that pad is a lot of the gun's provenance.

Like Mike A said, it's a working gun. It becomes clear that Ackley's emphasis was on barrel and metal work. The shaping of the stock looks a bit awkward in spots, even though it's comfortable. The inletting inside shows some fairly rough chisel work as if a "production" guy were trying to do it quickly. The checkering isn't bad and is 18 lpi. There are no sling swivels either, and today we'd find that a bit strange. But it all works.

I plan to touch nothing other than to shoot it and clean it once in a while, and otherwise keep it as it is.

I know this is a difficult question, but does anybody know what something like this might be worth? Obviously there aren't any on any of the sales sites to compare to but there must be some more of these out there somewhere, and somebody might know.

H47, I had a rifle similar to yours. The action was the same and it had a custom stock that I thought a bit awkward but well done. Had a 6x Kollmorgan on Stith mounts. The barrel was by Bliss Titus, chambered for .25 Souper. Sold it for 1200.00.



Steve, When I was in Trinidad any bar could be on the way home, but the one on Hwy 12 headed toward Cokedale was "The Office". I never went in but thought it a funny name, probally why I still remember. Dan.

Dan, I see what you mean about awkward lines in places. Seems that back in the day we didn't quite know how to handle the top line of the grip and the transition to the point of the comb on the Mausers. Later on when I was at Trinidad, Ed Shulin was suggesting that the tang should be filed down to smooth and ease this curvature and that a less abrupt curve to the comb be used. Stock makers were more used to doing Springfields and M70 ' s I think, and might have been more used to working to the Whelen/ Springfield style. The modern American classic stock formula was still evolving into its current form. So I'd think that both our stocks exhibit this transitional uncertainty. Each serves as a history example.

Did your action have a manufacture date by any chance?

WELL DONE
YOU got the pictures to show
Neat!!

Yes sir! Thanks to you. I appreciate it.

Nice little rifle! I remember an effort to really produce and market the P.O. Ackley rifles approx. 1970. The gunshop I grew up in received two for inventory, a .30/06 and a .270. I think the owner actually became what amounted to a dealer, and I remember putting a P.O. Ackley decal on the front door. The decal was a graphic of a barrel bore and rifling. These may have been Santa Barbara actions, I do remember the sliding safety, and they were drilled & tapped. Your rifle is for sure earlier than that. I like it.

You wouldn't happen to have any literature from that period would you? I believe Ackley operated in Trinidad up to about 1956 when he moved his shop to Salt Lake City. His barrel stamp then incorporated an "SLC" which is absent on my gun. A bit later on he either was bought out by or became associated with another company, which may be during the period you refer to.
Likewise I believe the FN actions evolved over time. The early post war ones were the "deluxe" like mine with 2 position wing safety and not drilled for scope mounts. Mine also has a military style trigger, but single stage. A bit later in the 1950's, they came drilled and tapped from the factory. About 1957 iirc, they evolved into the "supreme" which had a streamlined bolt shroud and redesigned trigger with side safety.
My action has no letters or numbers visible above the wood (perfectly legal back in 1948). All info is underneath including serial number. I think this may have been as a concession to factories and makers such as Ackley Who would then add their own information, engraving, etc., to suit.

WE must be careful with PO Ackley marked rifles.I have one in 338-06 AI that I know for certain was only barreled by him. The person I traded for it from did the rest of the work, using a Herter rosewood stock.Unless there is more than barrel markings, especially if the stock work seems a little "off",it should be suspect. Of course if it comes with invoices,letters,etc from Ackley;the matter would be clear. The current owner may be completely innocent in his belief that it was made by Ackley.
Mike

Yes I agree. Ackley apparently did a lot of rebarreling work which would have of course been marked. The credibility for me comes from the position of the Ackley stamp.. at top of the barrel several inches in front of the receiver where a manufacturer's stamp might be, rather than right next to the caliber marking. Also the aforementioned unmarked receiver (above the wood) such as a manufacturer might buy, and of course the custom made recoil pad with his company name. Taken all together I believe these things make a case for a completely Ackley - made rifle as opposed to a simple rebarrel. I would be interested to hear from those more knowledgeable than I of course.
The rifle came from an estate and afaik no documentation is available.

"[i]back in the day we didn't quite know how to handle the top line of the grip and the transition to the point of the comb [/i]"

A lot of stockmakers still don't. This is arguably the most difficult, and most influential line in the entire framework of stock architecture. I'm experimenting with a Krag pattern stock at the moment and just did some "adjusting" of the top tang line, a risky and permanent modification. I reshape top tangs on some single shot actions, Hagn, Dakota for example and have radically altered the top tang on double shotguns as anyone who has read about my Fox project knows.

Re-contouring a Mauser tang is required these days to achieve a good looking, and handling grip. I agree that the American Classic stock architecture was still evolving, and probably still is. And that Ed Shulin had much influence on the American Classic Style by training all the stockmakers he did, and teaching the cardinal rules.

One of those rule that I often still see violated is the need to have the comb nose very nearly exactly above the middle of the grip cap. Notice how the comb nose is in front of that point on Dan's .25 Souper sporter above, and how cramped the grip is?

The grip area of the stock behind the trigger and back of the action to the back of the grip and front of the cheekpiece is the most important to the look of the stock. That area is the place a stock can be made beautiful, or completely screwed up.

I also believe that in this case form follows function and a good looking grip will almost always make for a good handling rifle.

Hagn with tang altered nearly 1/8"


Dakota (.257R) with altered top tang, reshaped safety, replaced trigger, t-guard and re-contoured lever. All mods in the area suggested above.

I agree that the top of the grip is critical and that grip line on the Hagn is almost perfect.

But the other line that I really tend to notice is the buttplate. the Hagn is, again, almost ideal in my opinion - for both form and function. But why the big screw heads protruding on that grip plate? They really detract from that elegant curve and taper.

Did you mean buttplate?

Yes. I don't know why I typed grip cap...