Picked up my first double rifle earlier this year, and I'm wondering what accessories would be correct for the various compartments of the case? It's a Gye & Moncrieff, with hard leather monogrammed case:
Did a search here, but didn't find a picture or answer. I assume oil bottle, cleaning rod, etc.?
Gye & Moncrieff? I am totally ignorant of the name, can you tell more about it?
Oil bottle, turn screws, as old as it appears a period bullet mold would be nice if one could be found, spare strikers...
You might browse through here and see what Jeff has that might or could be of interest/use.
http://www.jeffsoutfitters.com/store.aspx?categoryid=99&panel=1
I had no info on Gye & Moncrieff either, but I'm digging up a fair amount of info over the last few months I've owned this one. Gye and Moncrieff were only in business at St. James Place in London for about 5 years, 1879-1884.
Gye and Moncrieff were both British officers. Gye a Lieutenant in the Artillery, and Moncrieff a Commander in the Navy. Both left the military, and decided to partner in making guns. They did as many small gun makers, and purchased barrels, locks, etc, and had the tradesmen in their employ assemble double rifles and double shotguns.
Gye died in 1884, and Moncrieff closed the company shortly after, and returned to military service. He volunteered to fight in the Zulu Wars, and after a year was released from military duty, and appointed Consulate General of several different North African areas. His last appointment was to the Sudan, and while traveling to Khartoum with an escort of 250 Egyptian soldiers, they were attacked by Madi forces and the Egyptian soldiers ran. Moncrieff's body was found two weeks later in the desert. The sad end to a long service to England.
That was interesting Vall. Thank you for taking the time to tell the story.
I have a very good brass English mould if your rifle happens to be a 500 bore.
I have a very good brass English mould if your rifle happens to be a 500 bore.
Thanks! Not even close to that big!
If there's no shaped compartment for the forearm try fitting it onto the barrels and see if you can put it in the barrels partician, many shotguns and Double Rifles were stored in their case that way. The large rectangular shape where the picture shows the forearm may have been used for boxes of ammunition and the small square space will have been for an oil container usually made of metal and fitted with a screw off cap which may or may not have a needle fitted to the underside of the cap to place oil accurately in the lock or elsewhere. There are so many choices, you may have to find someone with a similar case by the same maker that has all the accessories to be sure what went where.
Harry
Thanks Harry. The forearm was just laid there for the picture. It does indeed fit into the barrel compartment when snapped on the barrel.
What caliber is your double rifle?
What caliber is your double rifle?
It was originally .360 BPE, but when relined the caliber was changed to .38-55 Ballard. More shootable, and easier to get brass, but not original anymore.
Vall,
Can you see the liner? Do you know for sure it is lined? I ask this because 38-55 original length cases were often used for 9.3x57R/360 BPE.They were 1/8" short,but worked fine by seating the bullet "out". My thought was if a previous owner used 38-55 cases and some stayed with the rifle, a later owner may have just assumed it had been changed.Of course, as I often am, I could be wrong.
Mike
Yes, I can see the liners. The seller was the person who had it relined, so he also told me it was relined, and chambered to .38-55 Ballard too. It certainly didn't bother me that it was relined, or changed, as I bought it to use. Having it be in .38-55 was more attractive to me, as I plan on taking it deer hunting this fall. It's just begging me to get out in the woods and drop a decent mule deer!
Vall,
The disadvantage of lining to a different caliber is being able to find a load that "regulates", or shoots both barrels to a similar point of contact.In my uneducated opinion, the two cartridges are similar enough that the barrel convergence already built into the rifle may allow finding a load for the 38-55,that will "regulate".
Mike
Yes, I was given the load data for the new barrel liners and caliber, and the impact measurements for various distances with these loads. Just need to double check the loads at the range, and make up some of my own to see how they compare to my favorite .38-55 loads for my Ballards.
Vall,
It promises to be a lot of fun for you, regardless of how it turns out.
Mike
Looks like it will be a lot of fun and kudos on your pragmatism!
Thanks! We didn't get our elk draw this year, but I wouldn't have used it for elk anyway. I've taken a few mule deer with .38-55 in my other old guns, and was lucky to get the draw we put in for buck deer. Hopefully I'll get a shot at a buck with this oldtimer. Wont be able to do any load workup until mid August, as I'm recovering from a hernia surgery, and can't load or shoot for another 5 weeks. But still have plenty of time after that before the season opens!
A bit late in the day but here is what IGC has on the firm:
Name Gye & Moncrieff
Address1 60 St James's Street
Address2 44 Dover Street
City/Town London
Country United Kingdom
Trade Gun & rifle makers
Dates 1875-1887
Notes
Lionel Gye (b.1841 in London) was the son of Frederick Gye (b.1810). Lionel was an artillery officer before taking over from his father. Frederick and Lionel owned the Royal Italian Opera House and had interests in Covent Garden (which they eventually owned outright) and Drury Lane and, from 1821 to 1840, Frederick owned Vauxhall Gardens. Lynedoch Needham Moncrieff (b.1842 in Scotland and no relation to the Needham gun making family) was the son of Colonel George Moncrieff. Lynedoch was a Flag Lieutenant in the Royal Navy and was recorded in the 1871 census on board the "Narcissus". After he left the partnership he became H M Consul in Suakim, Tokar, Sudan where he died. The 1851 census records Lynedoch as a 9 year old at Sefton Park School in Upton cum Chalvey, Buckinghamshire. The Gye family were recorded in the 1861 census living at Springfield House in Lambeth. Frederick and his wife Elizabeth only had four children but their staff included a cook, two housemaids, a kitchen maid, a butler, footman and coachman. Frederick had an interest in shooting and was a guest of Viscount Dillon at Dytchley Park, Oxfordshire where on 27 November 1878 he was accidentally shot, he died of his wounds a short time later. At the time of his father's death Lionel and his family were living at 3 Collingham Place, Kensington. Gye & Moncrieff were recorded as being in business in 1876 at 60 St James's Street, London, but the partnership may have pre-dated this because on 20 April 1875 Alexander Moncrieff (possibly a cousin b.1830), Lionel Gye and Lynedoch Needham Moncrieff registered patent No. 1435 for a bar to hide the rib of shotguns and rifles. On 8 March 1878 Lionel Gye registered patent No. 950 for an opening cocking trigger plate action which had a box in front of the trigger guard to house a cocking lever. Very few guns were made as Westley Richards threatened a legal claim for patent infringement. On 7 August 1878 Lionel Gye registered patent No. 2123 for a chamber for a necked cartridge. On 5 November 1878 Lionel Gye patented an electric light which he had made and used to illuminate his opera productions.
On 29 November 1879 Lionel Gye patented a cocking mechanism and safety for hammerless guns (patent No. 4902). Although Lionel Gye has not been found in the 1871 census the 1881 census records the family living at 48 Redcliffe Gardens, Kensington. At that time he described himself as a retired artillery officer. The family employed a cook, two nurses, a housemaid, a kitchenmaid, and an indoor servant (rather than a footman or a butler). On 20 October 1881 Lionel Gye registered patent No. 4585 for a side-opening double barrelled action. On 16 March 1882 Lionel Gye registered patent No. 1282 for an improvement to his patent No. 4585 of 1881. On 10 June 1882 Lionel Gye registered patent No. 2746 for a modification to his patent No. 4585 of 1881. Despite a number of patents this firm's early guns were made for them by the trade and were engraved "Constructed for Gye & Moncrieff". Later guns were engraved "Constructed by Gye & Moncrieff". The firm had a good reputation for its rifles. In 1886 the partnership moved to 44 Dover Street but were not recorded after 1887.
The 1891 census records the family living at 40 Sinclair Road, Hammersmith. Lionel described himself as a 50 year old retired artillery officer. The family employed only a cook, housemaid and parlour maid. The 1911 census records Lionel living on his own in, presumably, a convalescent home at 161-163 Cromwell Road, Kensington. He died in September 1923 aged 82.
Other Info
The firm sold shotgun cartridges under their own name.
Tim
