Read all the DGJ articles relating to use of Nitro for Black in early double rifle cartridges. I am reloading 450 BPE with 48 gr 4198, 300 gr cast bullet and 13gr of Dacron Filler. Sherman Bell tested this load using I believe cork wad as filler and got about 22,000 lbs. per sq. in of pressure. He promised future tests using dacron and has yet to publish those.
I believe that cramming 14gr of dacron in the unfilled case may reduce case volume and significantly increase pressure.
Is there anything out there on dacron vs Pressure????
If not what are the theories? I have read recommendations for anywhere from a couple of grans of dacron to a case stuffed with tight packed dacrom to fill the airspace.
I'll be interested to hear your ideas!
Bob Jurewicz

If someone could copy my post to the nitroexpess.com web site I would greatly appreciate it!!!!
I have not been unable to register for board membership dispite numerous attempts over many months.
Bob Jurewicz

Bob-


I'm going to put this in a nutshell for you.
Don't think about it so much.
Use the filler.
You're risking ruining your rifle by way of ringing the chambers without a full case of powder/filler/bullet.

13 or 14 grains of dacron is your friend.
I use 21 grains in my 500/450 3-1/2" Magnum BPE over a big charge of Varget.

Have you read Graeme Wright's book on loading, handling, and shooting the double rifle?
He has extensive pressure testing results from running handloads and factory ammunition at a British Proof House.



Cheers
Tinker

Tinker,
Thank you for your comments. My gun is an 1890s steel barrel 450 BPE and I don't want to hurt it or ME. I have read all the DGJ Articles and have Wright's 2nd edition with the third on the way. I am an ecceptionally cautious person.
Thank you,
Bob Jurewicz

Bob-

It ends up being super simple with the dacron.
It's especially nice for bottleneck cartridges.
I use firm pure wool felt and sometimes cork for my heavier bore rifle loads.
I weigh my charges of dacron for each run of cartridges I load, bag them in little ziplock bags, and set them aside for the last stage of loading before I seat the bullets.

I have scores of images from old books and catalogs showing the bore rifle and big express rifle loads indicating solid fillers used to fill any void between powder and bullet.


Kynoch offers a spongy foam wad product that some guys run in Nitro for Black and Full Nitro loads.
I've spoken to guys who have encountered chamber ringing using foam. Never heard of anyone hurting a rifle when properly using the dacron -- and by properly, I mean that one must use enough of it to have it firmly compressed against the powder, filling all space between powder and the bullet base.
My loads run dacron directly against the Varget powder, with the jacketed bullet keeping tension on the dacron.

Some guys complain about the 'mess' that comes from shooting these loads, in that the dacron doesn't burn or de-compose during the shot.
It ends up landing on the ground ten or so feet forward of the muzzles.
No residue on the rifle or in the bores at all, but the hassle of picking up the dacron at the end of the shooting session is enough reason for some guys to use the Kynoch foam wads - which seem to dis-integrate during the shot leaving no residue in the rifle or on the ground in front of the rifle.
Something to consider if you don't like cleaning up at the range...






Cheers
Tinker

Tinker,
Thank you again! I do follow the same procedure for the dacron as you mention. It may have even been the result of your suggestion back in Feb. when I was posting of help with my first black powder rifle.
Bob Jurewicz

As per your request: http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=141913&an=0&page=0#Post141913 .

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Thank you Raimey!!!
Bob Jurewicz

Bob,

I have answered on the NE.com thread.

Let's get you signed up on that board. Send me an email and I'll try to help.

Curl

Antonio's response:

"Hello, Bob:

If you pack 13 grains of Dacron (density 1,3 grams/cc) inside your case, you are reducing the volume available inside in about .7 cubic centimeters; the bulk of the Dacron is apparently great, but most of it is air. It is very difficult to know the weight and the volume of the "cork wad" used by Sherman Bell, because cork density varies very much; but if I had to bet, it reduced the available space more than your Dacron and weighted much more than your Dacron. According to that, being the same the load, primer, case and bullet, his 22.000 psi should be higher than yours with Dacron.
I don´t know of any article relating dacron and pressure with pressure readings; but if we are not talking about very light tuffs of the material and the possibility of erratic ignition caused by the powder not placed by the primer (that you must consider if you want to stay in one piece), or the effects of the dacron as a "secondary proyectile", I think you must assume that the greater the dacron weight, the less the available case volume, the higher the weight of the ejecta (bullet and dacron weight) and the higher the pressure, being all the other factors the same.

And now, I will take one step to the side and hear the roar of the opinions about fillers!

If you search the "fillers" or "wads" theme in the forum( http://www.nitroexpress.com ), you will find lots of information.

Bast wishes

Antonio"


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Curl,
I have tried since Feb. to register on nitroexpress without success. I have sent emails to the moderator many times asking for help. If you or anyone else could help, again I'd appreciate it very much!
Also, the responses to the post at nitroexpress have been very good. I can read the board but can not interact.
Bob Jurewicz

Bob, I just posted a plea for help on the administrators and moderators forum of NE.com asking for help getting you signed up. Let's hope it will get results.

Curl

Bob,

I just sent you an email about the NE.com signup. Sent to the email listed in your profile.

We should be able to make some progress.

Curl

Does someone have the DGJ and or Shooting Sportsman Issues numbers for the .450 BPE discussions?

The best and most current information is in Graeme Wright's new edition of Shooting the British Double Rifle.

Curl

Stallones,
There are three (3) great articles in the DGJ:
Bell: V 16, I 3
Bell: V 15, I 4
Bell: V 15, I 1.
Then as Curl said the G.W.'s book is outstanding! I just got my new one.
I have had great luck and regulation with 48 gr of IMR 4198 and a 300 gr cast bullet with 13-14 gr of dacron.
Bob Jurewicz

For years i have used cornmeal for fillers and fireforming cases. When you can't get a large black powder case to shoot try some cornmeal. Rich