Irrespective of sleeving, when perusing shootable vintage guns, how old is too old? Is a pre-1900 damascus gun just too old to shoot (with appropriate low pressure loads) no matter the condition? Where do you draw the chronological line, or do you?

I think it's more a dimensional/condition issue.

I draw lines at condition and dimensions as per CH. I don't draw chronological lines.

If a gun is in good enough shape to shoot what difference does age make?

I sometimes wonder if one day I'll be shooting a 120-140 year old damascus gun and she will let go....About as often as I wonder if I'll be struck by lightning.

I realize that statistics may not mean a lot to the one who helps make them, but never-the-less I do sincerely believe "IF" you check the statistics, one is more apt to be struck by lightning than have his damascus gun blow up, & this even includes those fools who stuff them with modern mags.

Breechloading guns of quality and suitable for cartridges of modern dimension extend at least as far a the mid 1860's. One hundred forty five year old guns that can be fed ammunition that we load on reloading machines made last week are commonly used to hunt and shoot clay targets.

What they said. David Trevallion once told me that if the gun is within proof limits and the right shells were available, that gun was fine no matter when made. We were speaking of percussion conversions to center fire.

Spot-on.

Every gun I start using seems to get older than the last. I have been using black powder shells loaded with 1oz of No.6 in an old hammer pigeon gun by Thomas Sylven of The Strand, wuth non-rebounding locks, for most of the second half of the pheasant season.

It was proofed (30" damascus barrels)in 1868 for black powder and has never been inside the proof house since. Still on the original bores, it shoots beautifully and is perfectly sound and strong.

Damage, neglect and repeated repair will wear-out a gun, not age alone.

Excellent replies all, thank you. I'm going to a show tomorrow and this helps.

I would be more worried about some of the newer ones made with steel from the Bessemer Converter process than damascus. Perhaps in another 40 or 50 years.

Can you say Hydrogen degradation.

There is no answer to this question as it depends on use history and condition of each arm, but chances of "explosion" are greater then those from QUALITY guns made in say last 25 years.

A bit like meself, actually. ;-)
Km

The oldest (occasional, carefully loaded) shooter in my battery dates to the mid 1840s. Others which date between 1874 and later get a run too. If it's gunna let go then I can think of worse ways to die.
RG

[quote=cadet If it's gunna let go then I can think of worse ways to die.
RG [/quote

My kind'a guy...Geo

That's a very good point Montana. DT would know for sure, probably having seen more pinfire to centerfire conversions in British guns than 10 American gunsmiths.

Just as an example, I just picked up a very early J. Blanch and Son damascus barreled hammer gun that I am almost certain is a pinfire conversion. The gun has a typically older back lock action, and underlever with gorgeous barrels and beautiful engraving and wood. I have shot low pressure 2 1/2 inch 12 ga reloads through it and it performs beautifully. The barrels checked out pretty well, not too thin, in fact thicker than I have seen on many an English sxs being 30" and as light as the gun is.

I may attach a few pics of it on another thread and you can see why I think it is a converted pinfire, with the pinhole cutouts in the tops of the barrels at the breech, the small non-rebounding hammers with definite aftermarket stock cuts for the nipples of the centerfire pins and the very very low SN of the gun, which dates it in the 1870's.

Anyway, not to get too far off the subject, but all of that is to agree with you and DT/CC that if the condition of the gun is such that it is still in proof and you have the right shells, the gun is fine no matter how old. Smallbore's late season pheasant gun sounds fascinating.

Brad

Truely older guns have a habit of unseen pricey little things that go wrong. Even with a top-notch once over - they'll be no x-ray eyes involved.
Unless you find an outstanding specimen, the best of the London guns, the best of AH Fox and those pre-'13 LCs were all in the golden era of 1900-1915.
Thats about as old as it gets.

Lowell are you talking from experience or from a Cystal Ball ?

All year I put 'over a 100 rounds' per week through each of my Scott and Purdey hammer guns...circa 1873 to 1881 never a breakdown.

Info I collected while on a majic carpet ride through the cosmos last nite.
I'm feelin' much better today - thank you!

yOu been reading the Damascus thread again...Quality made guns don't break down very often.

I shoot my nice old Stephen Grant, Jones Lever, non-rebounding locks with 2 3/4x1 reasonable pressure ammo all of the time.
The condition and quality is the answer. I am as confident with it as my Thos. Wild circa 1935

For nearly 70 years, I've been using damascus, twist and modern guns in prime duck and grouse country comprising some of the worst weather and conditions for guns. I don't baby them, and none has broken down.

Mind you, I don't put hundreds of rounds a week or month through these doubles and wouldn't be suprised of a breakdown if I did. I do gun almost every other day during the seasons, and sometimes every day.