Could you shoot it and still maintain its collector value?
Could you shoot it and still maintain its collector value?
I could. I know how to care for a gun in the field and not put excessive wear on it, but it would be very judiciously done on rare occasions.
But you ask a good question. This piece is a conundrum because of its very high condition, especially the case colors, which mean everything to Parker enthusiasts/collectors.
JR
My question was somewhat rhetorical. I probably could not use the gun and maintain its collector condition; consequently, I would not own a gun like that. These high condition guns are becoming objects to behold rather than to use them for their intended purpose. As has been pointed out here, collector values are strong, but the market is small and the risk of depreciation is high if it gets bumped or dinged. To each his own.
One in silimar condition sold for not much less recently on GI... so it is not THAT far off.
I just do not get the posts complaining about how dealers price their stuff.
I enlarged the pictures of the floor plate engraving, and my eyes hurt when I looked at it.
What passes for art on early American firearms is surprising. What dealers ask for that art, is more so.
I think a Vulcan or a P in the same condition would be more impressive. Not impressive enough to buy and use, however.
Have you considered starting a go fund me page to acquire the gun, John? You might feel even better about owning it if someone else’s skin was in the game.
Hey, good luck.
Best,
Ted
One in silimar condition sold for not much less recently on GI... so it is not THAT far off.
I just do not get the posts complaining about how dealers price their stuff.
Who’s complaining about how dealers price their stuff?
What passes for art on early American firearms is surprising.
Ted,
I agree...and disagree.
AGREE, in that there are definitely SOME makes which have serious variance, Parker being perhaps the widest. There are some guns which are downright cartoon quality. BUT, the early Glahn work, coupled with both Goughs, produced some absolutely beautiful guns. And if Parker can be dinged for SOME of the engraving ("flying turnips" and stick figure dogs), they must be lauded for their exemplary fit, finish and variety of offerings. Plus, Parker had the very best checkering of any American make, bar none, IMO.
Parker isn't my MOST favorite American make, but they absolutely live up to the reputation they've garnered over the years. Not the most elegantly engineered internals, but
inarguably reliable nonetheless.
Ithaca had a better stable of engravers over the years, but the guns seem to make me yawn.
LC Smith sure had some early beauties.
Lefever tops them all.
- NDG
I kinda land on Mr. Vicknair’s side of the fence when it comes to American doubles.
However, if you are out there, enjoying one, more power to you.
Best,
Ted
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What makes anything worth anything? What makes a very simple little 56 year old, red, Italian car, the most valuable car in the world, worth $48.5 million? ...
someone with the money is willing to pay that for it.
Everybody’s eye is different, I am drawn to Folk Art and Parker Birds and Dogs. Would not cross the street to look at complicated heavy relief engraving.
Boats
I'm always interested in things new to me. Repetition is boring to me. Seeing the 500th DHE in 90% condition is a big yawn. My wife always says I go thru more hobbies than she can remember.
Might be attractive to someone who shot clay birds or game farms for half a day or so.
Not every gun is for grouse hunting in eastern MN or western WI.
Best,
Ted
Ted, have you ever considered starting a Gofuckme page? Just curious...
JR
Ted, have you ever considered starting a Gofuckme page? Just curious...
JR
That was an attempt at humor, John, after noting the price, which, you seemed to have issue with.
Sorry you had a problem with it.
Best,
Ted
Ted, have you ever considered starting a Gofuckme page? Just curious...
JR
That was an attempt at humor, John, after noting the price, which, you seemed to have issue with.
Sorry you had a problem with it.
Best,
Ted
Me too. Punch in the gut, kick in the nuts. Just funning...
JR
You still want to claim it is all "right" and original, John?
'Cause, we both know you were just funnin, ain't that right?
Best,
Ted
Oh, ya. For sure 'dere.
JR
Ted, have you ever considered starting a GofuckTed page? Just curious...
JR
If he does let me know.
He's banking on some guy wanting it with not a care for what it costs....trust me they exist.
How dare Ted point out the obvious....some people just can not get on board. You know what I mean?
I am more a shooter and one who accumulates stuff than a collector. A true collector never hunts with his pride and joy. He handles them only with white gloves and they never are far from the safe. That is not a gun I’d take into the field. Heck I don’t even own a set of white gloves.
Opening day of Dove season it rained a ton. I took my Winchester 42 high grade gun and it got wet. Another hunter could not believe I’d take a nice looking gun out into the field when it was going to get wet. Told him I’d clean it properly afterwards, the finish was in good condition and I own it to shoot Doves with it. My guns are for using not gathering dust in a safe.
Next day I lent a 28 gauge 37 to a new shooter. Had him stand on my peg and loaded one shell only for the first five shots. Then two shells. Told him the third shell was as almost always s a wasted shot. He got his limit under two boxes. He fell in love with that pump gun. Had to pry it out if his hands. His dad, on the way their side of the field, took more shells but his birds were a bit more difficult. Always start a new hunter out with safety first, then high percentage safe shots to build confidence. After he gets as done I got my limit but as far as I was concerned his was the best limit.
Jon,
These were the things Mr. Vicknair could find wrong with it in AN INTERNET PHOTO.
It is the kind of gun you should feel excellent about paddling a canoe with, should you break both paddles and not feel like digging out the spare. Viginity is long gone.
Best,
Ted
Even if I was, I'd never claim that one was "right".
It ain't.
Best,
Ted
Dewey would have said the same three things when it came out the door of the factory.
JR
Jason Peck has a Damascus G on the for sale section that is an excellent example of a Parker doll's head that has NOT been seen by a pry bar.
Best,
Ted
Ted, 18k is a canoe paddle out of my price range. Even if this gun was the best example ever made of its kind I’m not interested in it. A 18k bragging gun is excessive to me. I use them or don’t buy them.
You fellows have overlooked the chance to resurrect the "mint condition" debate
Every dealer discription has a lot of midway barker in them. Kind of reminds me of those old Herters catalog which made me think fish would jump out of the water just to look at those lures.
There is nothing really wrong with the rib extension fitment on the subject gun. It is well within what is considered normal.
My thought as well, Brian.No problem with the rib screw or the knurling either, afaic.
JR
The rib screw is no concern. It is visible on a lot of barrels. It is simply a function of how they built them. The matting being out of alignment in tat one area is odd, maybe that combined with the other observations is evidence of a repair.
If every tiny thing about a gun's rib matting, checkering, engraving or roll stamping has to be perfect for that gun to be original then there are thousands of true originals out there that "aren't". I've seen many examples of rib matting imperfections, imperfections in the roll stamping, etc., that were on undeniably original guns. The things were built by humans, using machines in some cases, but still operated by human hands. To think that no imperfections ever left the Parker factory is ridiculous.
SRH
The guns were hand built, but in a production setting. Errors exist. Serial number inconsistencies, markings, etc. heck, i know of an engraver who said he recut the engraving on a DHE once where the dog had 5 legs on it.
One thing is for sure, no one working at the factory making the guns ever would have thought that the guns would be so studied and collected 100 years later to where we would be having this conversation today.
One thing is for sure, no one working at the factory making the guns ever would have thought that the guns would be so studied and collected 100 years later to where we would be having this conversation today.
This^^^!
JR
So, it went from “ That gun is RIGHT “to “ Lots of them look like that”.
Bunk. That was a $100 Gun, in 1880. It did not leave Parker gun works with the screw showing, or, the rib matting looking like that. Look again at the well used, but not abused, G that is for sale right here. Nearly perfect. None of the other guns you posted had the screw showing, or misaligned rib matting. The barrels were built, and THEN matted at the factory in a fixture. I’d bet on a D grade they were about perfect 99.9% of the time. I am by no means a Parker Brothers booster, but, they didn’t build junk, either. The dolls head should be far better fitted if it is as unused as the dealer claims with the price.
I have seen NOTHING that makes me believe the first gun is some kind of virgin.
Best,
Ted
Who said anything about it being a "virgin", other than you, Ted?
JR
Who said anything about it being a "virgin", other than you, Ted?
JR
I'll give Steve this, though, that sucker is RIGHT, Jack...
JR
Looks one & the same from where I stand.
Who said anything about it being a "virgin", other than you, Ted?
JR
I'll give Steve this, though, that sucker is RIGHT, Jack...
JR
Looks one & the same from where I stand.
I always thought the word "virgin" meant unused, in this case that would mean unfired. Nobody is claiming the gun is new and unfired, so I think it a stretch to argue what I called "right" as being new, unfired, but then it seems attaching hyperbole to make a point is necessary when you're losing an argument.
Let's get something cleared up here: when I said that gun is "right", I simply meant it looks to be a very high condition and authentic representative piece in a very desirable configuration. It was Ted's desire to rush in and point out the error of my ways, so here we are. Whatever. But if anyone cares, here's what the Parker guys have to say on this subject:
http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=25125I'm done with this.
JR
[/quote]
I'm done with this.
JR [/quote]
That might be a smart thing. I've noticed on collector based web sites that hyperbole is most always capitalized, and a collecting expert is different than a gunsmith. The Parker website guys tend to worship at the altar of Del Greco, and while that name and work can buy some good things, that isn't promised:
What do they say about this gun? "Nice example"? "Run like hell"? "High condition"? I know what Dewey or Kirk would say.
'Gimme James Flynn, Kirk Merrington, Paul Hodges, Dewey Vicknair, etc,etc,etc, to evaluate a gun purchase in cold blood. The "enthusiasts" at some collectors web site, maybe not so much.
Any argument here was lost when the photo of the first gun went up with a claim it was somehow "right".
May have been, but, isn't now.
Best,
Ted