Dear members of the board, I've got a question.

In my next column in Russian Hunting Magazine I'm touching on an issue of "hunting as an excuse". That is, a guy tells his wife he's going hunting, puts on his camo, packs up his gun and leaves home for a couple of days, but uses the time away to check into a motel with his mistress, or go wherever booze and loose women are available. In Russia it's pretty common; so common, in fact, that in just about every hunting and fishing lodge prostitutes and drink are only a question away. This sometimes makes life hard for people who really want to hunt and fish, and damages the image of hunters in the public eye, and... (go on for 1500 words and you'll get yourself a column).

The point is that it's a cultural question, and with every cultural question you've always have to check how it is in other cultures. with other countries.

Thus the question.

Assuming you've never done it yourself, how common or uncommon is this practice around you?

Humpty, because the US is broadly religious, among middle aged men that enjoy the field pursuits, I have not noticed any great amount of infidelity. Drinking, gambling, yes, definitely, but not much else.

I don't think we talk about it much here. It can be a very expensive hobby.

On an individual basis, well, I think circumstances vary.

But none of my grouse camps have resident camp followers. The nearby casino's may/may not.

You guys are so far ahead of us.

I'd also say fairly rare in the US. But I did hear a story about 4 agents from the Iowa Bureau of Criminal Investigation who took an annual Canadian fishing trip together. One year, their wives decided to fly into their fishing camp and visit them. They found that the agents already had female companionship.

Humpty,

There used to be a whore house in Sealy, Texas that was affectionately known as the "hunting lodge". I never visited it, but had some friends that seemed to be intimately familiar with it.

I was invited to attend a formal, long time deer hunting camp many years ago in Arkansas. There was hunting during the day, and lots of drinking and card playing in the evenings, but if there was a lady around, I don't recall one. It is possible that the cook and house cleaner was female, but that was all she did.

HHH

I recall that one.

No one I know has ever admitted to engaging in anything like that kind of behavior. i'm guessing we like hunting too much!

Anyone serious about hunting, would be too tired in the evening to do anything but sleep after the meal, a few drinks and a couple of rounds of cards, unless they're in their 20's!

I have heard of some men telling their wives they were going dear hunting.

Call me naive but I always thought that kind of activity was the stuff of fables or the extracurricular activity of wealthy old capitalists who's wives were old, fat, & dowdy.... never heard of it with the guys I associate with... but again, I may be very naive.

Several times I've gone on hunting trips with acquaintances and had them go out for an evening of drinking on the first day. I wouldn't go because too much alcohol is terrible depressant for me. However, invariably I'd find myself hunting alone the next day because everyone else would be too hung over. Damned fools! As for woman, I don't know if there was any of that going on or not since I was never there.

Steve

"Honey, why didn't you pack any underwear for my hunting trip?"
"I did. I put them in your ammo box."

As a more serious reply:
Cussing? Yes.
Drinking? Yes. (End of the day of course.)
Cards? Yes.
Gluttony? Yes.
Raw jokes? Yes.
Womanizing? Never.

I agree with clapperzapper. I have been in numerous grouse deer and pheasant hunting camps and have never noticed fellow hunters engaged in adulterous behavior. However most of my hunting companions are fine Christian men and not prone to such predilections.

I agree there. You're just too damn tired to do anything else but hunt and clean the damn gun.

I'll have to add though while in the Czech Republic many waitresses were from Russia and holy smokes were they stunningly beautiful.

Not in places I have been with my hunting buddies. Well, not in the US or Canada anyhow. Mexico and South America, yes but they seem to have a different culture...Geo

Old Chinese proverb; "A man away from home has no neighbors"

After a long time of not being single, I am now. So if I'm ever hunting in the Czech Republic (or elsewhere) I'll keep my eyes open. But the wallet will stay shut.

I went on a dove shooting trip to Argentina in 2014. After the first day of shooting, one of the guys in another party that was staying at the same lodge did not come to breakfast. His wife said that he had over indulged the night before and wouldn't be able to shoot that day. I was stunned. You go all the way to Argentina to shoot birds and you miss an entire day of shooting because you're hung over!

I recall being in Argentina with a group several years ago; after dinner out, in BA, several of us were walking back to our hotel and stopped in a pub for an after dinner drink. A couple of hookers tried to pick us up. Only one guy seemed to be interested; the rest of us regarded him as a total "jerk" and left him there. He was regarded and treated as a "jerk" for the remainder of the trip.

Agreed, I have never seen infidelity in the hunting camp.

At one lodge I go to, the operators say that in 30+ years of operating the lodge, they only know of 1 hunting party, once, that so much as went to a nearby (45 minutes away) strip club.

After a hard day of hunting, and paying the fees to stay at a lodge with meals, the only thing most want to do is have a few drinks, finish a big meal, perhaps clean their guns, and then turn in at night so they can wake up early the next morning.

Shhh ! Our wives may be reading this !

Is this a pro hunting magazine? I think the culture in the US might have a fun cartoon illustration of a fisherman swinging by the market to buy a couple of fish on the way home. Would the Russian culture find the topic to be of general interest for readers of a decent hunting periodical?

Iv deer hunted around Stevens Point....and a few of the guys went into point drinking after the hunting and .....with some of the college girls.....didn't show up back in camp until the afternoon the next day.....

one of the friends of my wife ended up getting a divorce after a farm girl showed up at the door with her husbands baby....10months after ...deer hunting camp...

also a town name of Hurley....was known for its FUN time during deer hunting week....just sayin

you either trust your spouse and the people he/she hangs with or you don't....the same types of goings on can be happening at home while your hunting.....

And here I thought W&W meant west and wewaxation.

1988 was a banner year for this old Fox- Went to Calgary in July with 7 other TU pals to fish the Bow River- also took in the stampede. We fishing 11 hours with the long summer lights in July- after drinks, hot tub, etc- we were all ready for the sack sans femmes, even though the motel had some very attractive female waitstaffers-none of our group that I know of (all married) were approached by any of the gals however- But that Fall (Twins won the Series) one of the 7 guys, my best buddy Bob and I went out to MT. to fish the Clark Fork, and also bird hunt. Both were great- and we had a good room in the Holiday Inn-and found out that the Oxford Café had open stakes poker every night- So Bob and I both played- 7 card stud and 5 card draw, and got quite lucky- we played at separate tables. Bob and I quit winners the second night about 1:00 PM (I was 47 then) and we each had about $650 in get ahead cash in our pockets. Free drinks, a la Vegas, if you are at the table and have chips- but Bob and I are serious poker players, or were then anyway- no big heavy meals before gambling and NO alcohol- So, Bob ordered a single malt on the rocks and I had a gin and tonic, at the bar- where there were a few local gals hovering- One blonde, a bar fly if I ever saw one, snuggled up to Bob and asked him where he was staying. Bob was cautious, figuring a set-up was brewing- so he said- at a local Motel-- she then told him that for $100 she'd spend the night with him and do whatever he wanted in bed to please him. Bob thought for a minute,said "Huum, a hundred bucks, hey? Tell you what, sweetie, I'll jack off in the shower and keep the hundred if it's all the same to you." She about fell over, first time I guess a MT. Hooker was ever turned down..

In the US, not common.

US citizens that go to hunt in Mexico or South America? As Humpty says, only a question away.

Fox, that was funny!...Geo

I can't imagine anyone that enjoys a libertine life to abandon discretion and write about it here. It's a big world, and things happen.

Over the larger view, I think US culture is less accommodating than European culture in these sorts of matters. ie. Brangelina.
And those that are accommodative, keep their mouths shut, for fear of embarrassment or social disapproval.

My friends father had two families for forty years as example.

Humpty:

My opinion is that this kind of behaivor is not a particular characteristic of a culture or a Country.
Everywhere in the world exists individuals without family values and inmoral enough to cheat his wife. They can lie and invent a story (go hunting, work meeting, etc.) in order to do what he wants.

Mexican hunters are no diferent regard that: most are decent persons that respect themselfs and their wifes and there are a few that not.

Well said Jose. I've heard of stories like this in the U.S.A., but have never witnessed. I'm sure it happens, but not all that common. Jose is right, it's all about morality.

I've never seen or heard of hanky-panky in hunting and fishing camps around here, not that our mostly Scottish-Acadian-Catholic culture is different generally from elsewhere. We never made rules about liquor or wives at our camp, 10 miles in the woods accessible by foot or floatplane, but liquor hasn't appeared ever, tea preferred for relaxation. Maybe guns and aircraft are moderating influences.

Really King? Didn't you ever take your womanizing imaginary pals John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King to your camp? And just tea for relaxation??? Not even a wee bit of your famous award winning wine... which as it turns out, was actually produced by someone else?

Just before I went into the service my father told me that the myth of a hundred miles from the flag pole was a lie. He said never do anything you don't want to explain to your mother in church. Because he said someone would see you do it and ask you about it the next time you saw them while you were visiting your mother and she dragged you off to church. Being young and sure he was wrong I took it with a big grain of salt.

About a year later I was in South Korea when I saw a farmer, Mr. Holt, who had a real large dairy farm about ten miles away from the farm I grew up on. He had one arm around each of his two much younger Korean nieces, at least I think they were his nieces they way he was being so nice to them and them to him. While I never saw him in Church, to ask him about his visit with his nieces, he was a Methodist and we were not, the point my father was making stuck with me for the rest of my life.

Now with cell phones it has just gotten worse in ever respect. Stupid people can get caught in photos or videos and it goes onto the net in real time. No fun being young and dumb when it goes out before you even get done being stupid. So unless you are a total moron you just need to hunt when you hunt and keep your sex life home where yo wont embarrass yourself outside of your family.

Mr. Fernandez, I read your post and then re-read mine above. It was not my intention to insult the culture of your Country but that is what I posted.

I have visited Mexico shooting Whitewing Doves, Ducks and Quail several times (back in the '80s) in the Lake Guererro and Laguna Madre region of Tamaulipus State. I'm just a country boy and I was surprised and shocked by the availability of shall we say "loose women". I am sure that you are correct in that the good people of Mexico are no different from the good people of my country.

I apologize for the insult if that was the way my post read to you. It was not meant as a condemnation of of Mexican culture in general...Geo

Many years ago, (40)while living/working in New England, I went deer hunting with local co-workers. Their "deer camp norm" was to drink heavily every night in the cabin, and play cards to 1 a.m. No women were involved, but heavy hangovers the next morning.

At our office in Boston, our small group of hunters had to "keep secret" that we were hunters and gun-owners. The secretarial staff were all very liberal women that were rabidly anti-gun and anti-hunting. If they knew we were hunters, we would have been ostracized and had to do our own copies, letters, filing, etc. We hunters went out to lunch together to secretly plan our hunting trips. It felt "James Bond-ish."

After I moved back to Missouri, I never again saw heavy drinking in deer camp; and the administrative staff I worked with all had hunting husbands that drove pickup trucks.

gold40

Geo:

Do not worry; I am sure that your post do not had the intention to offend anybody.

I am sure that every Country in the world have good and bad people and a full scale of "colors" between the extremes.

Hunting and fine shotguns are true passions for most of the participants in this forum, so you and me have common interests that made us much closer than you think.

Best,

Been in a few camps, AZ, NY, NH, VA, lots of talk, no action. Most guys still respect their wives, maybe I'm lucky or, as I think, it's who you choose to hunt with.

Truth is I'm too scared of my wife to even consider cheating on her...Geo

Quoted for accuracy!

Several years ago, I and some friends went to Hungary for driven pheasant shooting. Our outfitter related to us that their prior group, a number of Italians, had arrived and immediately went into their lodge with a bunch of booze and some women and were not seen again until their departure.

A man can chase women 365 days a year...

Hunting season is only so long, why on earth would a person want to mess that up by spending their time womanizing when they could be hunting... :-)

Cigars, a couple drinks in the evening, sure.... But other than that, it's all about the hunt.

Rob hit the nail on the head, as far as I'm concerned. I don't buddy up with men who cheat on their wives any other time. Why on earth would I want to go off on a hunting trip with that kind of man?

I was off on a duck hunting trip just last week with three other men, each of whom are what I consider to be loving husbands and Godly men. When I returned I told my wife what a pleasure it was to be in th company of honest, moral men whose sole reason for being there was to chase ducks.

I have been to Argentina in the company of 17 other men and there was not one hint of infidelity on the part of any one of them during the entire trip. Several kinda wanted to have a young woman give them a massage after supper, but would not do so because they would not want their wives wonder about them.

SRH

I've always liked the quote attributed to actor Paul Newman; "Why go out for hamburger when you have steak at home?" Of course he was married to beautiful actress Joanne Woodward so I'm not sure his sentiment applies to all...Geo

LOL, HD, have a look at the adverts for hunting trips in Italian magazines. The illustrations leave no doubt as to the intended quarry!

Old age has a lot to do with personal morality. It's easier to be good when the quarry ain't worth the stalk anymore...Geo

Thank you all for your very valuable insights.

Guess I owe a little explanation. The magazine issue for which the column is intended is how do others see us hunters, and I'm going to take on the problem described for a variety of reasons. To be honest, I hold very liberal views on sex, but I can't understand how people can sacrifice the very limited opportunities to hunt for something like that, and it's really damaging to the image of hunting imo. Finally, I have a few personal grudges, as I really don't like it when I arrive with my wife and children at a hunting or fishing lodge and see the residents of the next cabin call in a carload of questionable females. I'd really like to have hunting in Russia perceived as a family affair, and while I don't think a couple of columns could change that, I'm sure gonna try.

Might be that young dogs are more likely to run wild when they are let off the leash.

I am 61. The older I get the easier it is to be good.

Best,

Mike

Boy you like to do the tough ones. When the men go hunting the wives also can go hunting. Happens more than you think. They are safe from me now Iam 71 and just got married in May.Remember you hunters, when the cats away the mice will play. Rich

I didn't marry a mouse. I married a fox.

SRH

Well played, well played.

Exactly, they all turn into a fox when the cat's away. Rich

Good choice.

Can only speak for Britain here but it doesn't seem prevalent.

Personally I go fishing and hunting to get away from women! Lagopus.....