Hi all,

So I just received my Aya today that I had ordered from Spain and I am a little upset that the company I imported it from put the import marks directly on the barrel top. To me this makes it look much more modern than I would like. Is this the typical norm?

This is my first experience importing a firearm I didnt even realize that that was going to be on the gun at all. I since called another importer and they told me that they usually put it on the barrels under the forearm.

Please let me know what you all think. It was sort of disheartening to me as I think the rest of the gun is absolutely stunning.

That's very bad form. Most put the marks on the barrels under the forearm.

I too put it under the fore arm. I would kindly inquire if they would pay to have the barrels re-struck and blacked.

.

Agreed. I have skipped over even considering a couple of new mfg. sxs's because of this.

You think I should ask them to have them rest ruck and blacked?

Will this fix the issue? Will the barrels look alright?

really is no issue....just most likely low paid employee that didn't realize that import marks are best put in least conspicuous areas.....you can live with it or you will have a new gun with reblued barrels...neither an optimal situation...but all part of long distance purchases......If neatly stamped Id live with it.. ...

might be illegal to remove import marks????

If the work is done properly the only one who will know it was done is you. Pick a competent craftsman and you should be good to go. Rust blue is not rocket science despite what some folks will tell you. Additionally, a good craftsman will most likely improve upon the factory barrel striking. The last few AYA barrels I polished out were not exactly well struck to begin with.

Both of my AYA No 2's are marked under the forearm where the markings are not normally visible. They were, in my opinion, marked in the proper location by the two different importers.

I agree that import markings on top of the barrel of a quality firearm is bad form.

I believe the import markings are required under the GCA of 1968. But most importers put them in inconspicuous places. On the other hand, you will also run into some OU's--Belgian Brownings, for example--on which at least some of the proofmarks are visible on the outside.

Who is this idiot importer? The company I worked for sent its guns down the street to a jewelry store where the import marks were engraved in a very professional manner in an inconspicuous area.

Was the gun imported by one of the USA aya importers?


John

Yup, my question exactly. WHO?

G&H did that to a Brit boxlock they imported for me a few years ago. Fortunately, it was discretely engraved and the gun in question was not an original condition Boss, etc., but I still was not thrilled

John:

If you get a gun through any AYA or Arrieta importer you will see the name on the top of the barrel.

Does not matter if you get a gun from Griffin & Howe, Orvis, New England custom guns , etc etc. You will see the name on the bbl.

If it really is a issue, you will have to have it done and pay for it yourself.

Best

JOhn

John, that is absolutely bogus. Following the law, the mark can be hidden and very professional looking. Ours were engraved by a jeweler with 100 years in the engraving business. It does not have to be done at the point of manufacture as I understand it. If I am wrong, please enlighten me. Were we violating the law by picking our guns up at Customs and then having them marked by the jeweler before delivery to the customer? Again, enlighten me.

Eightbore: You either did not read or understand what I said, please reread

John

John, you got me there. However, your mark or G&H's mark on the barrel, professionally applied, is different from a roughly stamped mark of Joe's Gun Shop.

I would feel a lot better about it if it was done is Script instead of a modern Sans Serrif

John

My AYA No 2's were nicely marked by the importers UNDER the forend where it not noticeable, as follows:

"Importer AyA USA Old Saybrook CT"

"N. E. Custom Gun Service Plainfield NH"

Both of my Grade II Ugartecheas are roll marked on top of the barrel - but I don't care on an inexpensive gun.

Alright, after much research it appears that it is federal regulation that the import name be on top of the barrel for new guns, apparently they can still get away with engraving under the forearm on older guns being imported. I spoke with someone at NECG and she said that they were audited by the ATF some time ago and that they were cited for not being in compliance because they were doing their engraving of new imported aya's under the forearm.

Well....maybe. I know folks who are currently importing AyAs who still mark them under the forearms. Not to go-off on the Feds here, but it seems that it depends on who you actually get to deal with. Some of the BATF folks are fine and some are, evidently, not. We have a President who choses to ignore some laws while selectively enforcing others, that sends a confusing message on down the line for everybody.

When I was importing Darne guns, I was put on notice where the mark would be, what size it would be, what information the marking would contain, and that failure to so mark said guns was a crime. It was to be on the top of the barrels.
There was no discreet option. The Customs people at port of Minneapolis also inspected the gun for BATF markings. And, collected the excise tax on said guns.
Port of Minneapolis is an unfriendly place to import firearms to. Trust me on that.
Unless the law has changed, the stuff has to be engraved or stamped on top of the tubes.
I had two guns sneak through without it. I wish none of them had been marked, but,
it wasn't my call.

Best,
Ted

The days of discreet marking is over.
Some agents/locations just haven't gotten the word yet.

Be glad they don't require the dot matrix punch marking that milsurps are now required to use.

Could very well be that the law has changed, but unless it has, anyone with an FFL can do "occasional" importations. It was my understanding--which may be wrong, or the law may have changed--that while those with an import license have to mark their guns, those with just your common, garden variety FFL doing the occasional importation do not.

I have a British 20, clearly imported as a used gun. (It predates the ATF by several decades.) The importer's mark is on the underside of the rib, nicely hidden by the forend. I've seen numerous other guns, imported used, that are similarly marked. Still acceptable? On new guns, my understanding is the same as GrouseGunner's.

The law has not 'changed' per se. The ATF has re-interpreted the standard.
Mostly it came about due to milsurps and black rifles, but has no exemptions for 'fine' guns.

If your 20 predates the ATF and GCA '68, the importers mark was done by choice. It was not required before that point.

Individual FFL's can do an occasional import. I have done exactly one. One was enough. I did the one to learn the process and to see if it was a direction I would want to pursue. Nope.


Here is the kind of marking now being done on milsurps. Even if the gun already has a factory serial number, the ATF is now requiring a new one, marked to meet the reinterpreted standard.




Marking Requirements
Licensed Importer – 18 U.S.C. § 923(i) and 27 CFR § 478.92
26 U.S.C. § 5842 and 27 CFR § 479.102
1. SERIAL NUMBER
Must be conspicuously engraved, cast or stamped (impressed) on the firearm frame or
receiver
•
The serial number cannot duplicate the serial number appearing on any other firearm the
importer previously imported
•
For firearms imported after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting or stamping
(impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print
size no smaller than 1/16 inch
•
2. NAME of MANUFACTURER
Must be conspicuously engraved, cast or stamped (impressed) on the firearm frame,
receiver, barrel or slide
•
For firearms imported after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting or stamping
(impressing) of the serial number must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch
•
3. COUNTRY of ORIGIN
Must be conspicuously engraved, cast or stamped (impressed) on the firearm frame,
receiver, barrel or slide
•
For firearms imported after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting or stamping
(impressing) of the country of origin must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch
•
4. MODEL DESIGNATION (If assigned)
Must be conspicuously engraved, cast or stamped (impressed) on the firearm frame,
receiver, barrel or slide
•
For firearms imported after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting or stamping
(impressing) of the model designation must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch
•
5. CALIBER OR GAUGE
Must be conspicuously engraved, cast or stamped (impressed) on the firearm frame,
receiver, barrel or slide
•
For firearms imported after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting or stamping
(impressing) of the caliber or gauge must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch
•
6. NAME of IMPORTER
Must be conspicuously engraved, cast or stamped (impressed) on the firearm frame,
receiver, barrel or slide
•
Firearms Verification - Gun Control Act Definitions 2
For firearms imported after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting or stamping
(impressing) of the importer’s name must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch
7. CITY & STATE of the IMPORTER
Must be conspicuously engraved, cast or stamped (impressed) on the firearm frame,
receiver, barrel or slide
•
For firearms imported after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting or stamping
(impressing) of the importer’s city and state must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch

Right. I realize no importers mark was required before 1968. My point was that the gun in question, while pre-68, was likely imported post-68 given the presence of the concealed mark.

I used the services of a dealer who was not an importer to import one gun. Went smoothly in our case, but that was also some time ago and I don't know that I'd recommend anyone else--dealer without an import license or buyer using the services of a dealer who's not an importer--go that route either.

Even if you are a regular dealer (01) you are required to mark the gun, those who did not did not follow the law. An 01 dealer is not exempt


John Boyd
Quality Arms
Houston, TX

If I was going to have a early 1900's English sidelock brought in from England would it be the same requirement? I would not even consider importing one if that was the case.

Yes. You have to mark all guns imported with the information exactly as above. Note the only thing that changes is the date of the import, NOT the date of manufacture of the firearm. I've never understood how someone can look at the regs posted above, in the language BATF uses, and think that somehow, it doesn't apply to the gun they want to import, or them.
As to 01 FFLs doing imports. Some of my most memorable cases involved getting people out of a jam when an import went bad at the 01 FFL level. They are supposed to be able to do it, and if everything goes right, they can. But, the most common problem was a gun catching an airplane to the wrong town, at which point, US Customs seizes the gun, as, it isn't supposed to be on that plane. At that point, you need an importer, and he may need a customs house broker.
Just off the cuff, my experience, at the time BATF was interested in the business and agents were there to help. US Customs was an enormous fiefdom, staffed with a lot of people who couldn't make it as real cops for some reason, and took that chip on their shoulder to work with them everyday. I never had a single problem with BATF. The people at US Customs often made trouble for no particular reason, other, than they could.
I don't do it anymore. Maybe things have changed, or, the political climate where you are located will be different. But, I'm done importing anything, especially guns.

Best,
Ted

My one experience was on the other end of the scale. Form signed by the dealer, but--at least at that time--someone else could be designated to receive the gun. Block for that right on the form. So it came to me, little rural Iowa post office. Postmistress collected the fees (she'd never done a gun before but she had done other shipments with customs fees and duty to be paid) and out the door I went to take care of the paperwork with the dealer.

But having heard a lot of negative stories, like Ted's above, doubt I'd try it again.

Yes, and all importers are supposed to mark in a conspicuous location....

Flat statements about ATF regulations, are sadly, usually not the rule.

The single gun I imported, the customer wrote to the BATF and received a letter explaining that as an 'Occasional' importer, it did not need to be marked.

The following is interesting information about the rifle, though not mentioned in the ATF letter, I did have to wonder if it had anything to do with their interpretation of the law IN THIS SPECIFIC CASE.

The rifle was a Ruger #1 among a group of actions sold to Heym and EXPORTED from the USA. Then used to build rifles and also marked by Heym.

Bought from a UK auction, all documentation referred to the firearm as a Heym, not a Ruger, though it still bore the Ruger serial number....

I told the buyer to keep the letter, and store it in a safe place. Probably should have asked for a copy, but with all the other paperwork, I forgot to do so.

So, rifle was not marked with my information, by authority of the BATF.

USA to Germany, to the UK and back to the USA and no markings beyond the Ruger & Heym factory markings.

Before I was an FFL, I bought a pre-99 shotgun from Australia. It was delivered directly to my doorstep, with customs forms, but no payment of duties.