Just so everyone knows upfront, I am a die hard Fox aficionado but am not so faithful or closed minded as to not fondle/shoot lesser guns!
I just picked up a 16 Ga. NID with cocking indicators. unmolested, original wood and LOP, no dents or pitting in barrels, blue had some light surface rust but no pitting to speak of. original buttplate. no cracks, chips or splits. no case color. the price was cheap. This was at a Cabelas. I though I was reading the price tag wrong. Maybe I am off base but I would consider this Ithaca's equivalent to the Sterlingworth and Trojan. Is that the consensus?
If so, these seem to be a bargain compared to what Fox 16's are going for.
Or maybe my purchase was just an anomaly. Sort of like that Lefever DS 16 with ejectors I picked up 3 years ago for 350.00 from a large east coast shop.
So based on the collective knowledge of the board, am I wrong in lumping the NID Filed grades in with the Sterlingworth and Trojans?

An Ithaca Field grade just does not bring the money that a Fox or a Parker does...Geo

NIDs are undervalued for their utility, very strong but lacking the aesthetics of the Fox, the legend of the Parker and cult following of the Smith's. Fox and Uncle Dan's Lefever small bores are more expensive but what a joy they are to carry in the field and to shoot. Brian whoever priced your DS must have been looking at Nitro Special prices.

I am sure they were but the tag said DS on it. They may have been confused but I didn't argue the point.
The NID does lack the aesthetics of the Fox but from a mechanical/labor cost/marketing standpoint I was under the assumption that the Filed NID is the Ithaca equivalent of a SW or Trojan.
And that is why I asked the question.

Ithaca NID Field Grade 12-gauges are like Browning Superposed 12-gauges, great values in the current market, and they suck you in. Then you start wanting the other gauges, and that gets spendy --

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Ithaca-NID-Field-410-ga.cfm?gun_id=100342853

In the year Ithaca Gun Co. introduced the NID, 1926, the Field Grade went for $37.50. That same year, the A.H. Fox Gun Co. dropped the price of their Sterlingworth to $36.50 --

Researcher,
It's amazing how you come up with all this history.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.



Vernal

If I wanted to buy another American double shotgun it would be Ithaca NID. I like nicely cut rib tops and cocking indicators. I would pick Ithaca over Fox, Parker or L.C.Smith. Sadly Ithaca Gun often gets overlooked. Just recently fella bought Mossberg 590A1 instead of new Ithaca with extended magazine tube. The Ithaca 37 had tag of $499 which is very reasonable for what one actually gets.

In 1936, the A&F catalog listed Ithaca and Elsie Field Grades, and the Fox SW, all within a few pennies of $43. The Trojan wasn't listed, but pretty sure it was a little higher.

I think you have to first separate utility from esthetics.

The NISs were built on small, light frames, so they have the ability to be nice light field guns. The design is straight forward and reliable, and was obviously designed for ease of assembly and repair. Personally, I really like those little cocking indicators. Ithaca cut some of the best chokes out there. Yeah, they're undervalued.

As far as esthetics go, the NID is just a boxy lock gun compared to the other big three. There's no special attention to line. Until you get to the ejector grades, the exterior finish is not bad, but nothing special. I think if you closely look at a good example of a Parker, inside and out, and the others too, the general pecking order becomes clear.

I did not have buyers knocking down my door a couple of years ago for this Ithaca NID 16 ga field grade with 26" bbls - later extractor gun w/o indicators. Sold it for what I had in it after about 6 yrs of little use. Stock dimensions as I believe were close to 3" DAH and I couldn't hit anything with it. It also carried a little heavy especially compared to my 16 ga Sterlingworth.

ithaca guns have always been undervalued when compared to parkers, foxes and smiths...this is one of the reasons to own ithacas. they are quality guns at bargain prices!

and, one can buy a half dozen nice nid's for the price of a clunky ole 21...

Yes Brian, they are no doubt usually undervalued, but I have no explanation. When I first got into doubles, Sterlingworths and NID's in like condition were priced almost equally. Both are well made vintage American doubles that have a rotary bolt. I think the NID was a big improvement in both strength and appearance over the Flues. I have 3 Flues models, a 16 and 2 20's, I bought for parts that have barrels split around the forearm. Coincidence, more time to get mud or snow in a barrel, or thinner weaker tubes? That similar pricing seemed to change dramatically in about the mid-1990's, and I attributed some of the increased demand for Foxes to Michael McIntosh's book and the gunsmiths who began using field grade Foxes as the basis for semi-custom upgrades. But who really knows? A few years ago, I watched a nice 16 ga. NID sit on a table at a fairly large gun show all day with a $300.00 price tag. Sounds like it was in a bit better condition than yours... no rust, 95% blue, 40-50% case colors, unmolested and uncut, cocking indicators, great wood with strong checkering, a little varnish flaking at the buttplate. I went back and looked several times thinking it was very cheap, but I didn't really need it. On my way out, I went back and offered $225.00, and bought it for $235.00. How could you go wrong? How could so many guys who would break their arm reaching for their wallet to pay over a grand for a similar condition 16 ga. Trojan or Sterlingworth walk right by that NID? I do consider the Sterlingworth more attractive, but not that much. Some might disagree, but I like them a whole lot more than the current crop of field grade Turkish made doubles that sell for a lot more. Great values.

Keith, I think you are spot on. For some one who wants to get into the American double game and hunt with one that they would be proud to own, I see nothing wrong with the NID. maybe not as graceful as a Sterlingworth but like the Sterly, same action and components as its higher graded big brothers in the Ithaca stable.

The NID's are even a great value in 16 and 20's. The 28 and .410 tend to be very pricey. I have picked up grade 2 and 3 20's in good to very good condition for a lot less than I could find even a Sterlingworth 20.

My best buy was a 16 field grade in 99% condition that someone had cut the barrels from 28" down to 27 1/2". I guess the end of the barrels got dinged or damaged and the "gunsmith" whacked off half an inch to fix the problem. The bob job was done fairly well and with a little revision is not detectable otherwise than the odd barrel length. The chokes are even perfect. For what I paid you could not even find a Crescent or Lefever Special in beater shape.

Well, I have a LC Smith and an NID hanging side by side. It takes a better eye than mine to tell the profile difference. I don't have a Parker to compare. But I guess the beauty is in the eye of the bee-holder. I wonder if the old major makers had a blind test how many here could ID them??? It is beyond me that's for sure.

The legendary American doubles manufacturers: L.C. Smith, Fox and Parker were firms which only made side-by-side shotguns. They have the cache of grouse moors and quail coveys. Ithaca, Remington, Hopkins & Allen, for that matter, are identified with production of a whole raft of less exalted firearms. Thus the market assigns a premium to the Big Three. Similarly in the world of collector cars Packard, Pierce Arrow & Cord will always command higher prices than fine General Motors autos like Buick, LaSalle and Cadillac... Yes indeed, you get more for your money today when you buy an Ithaca double. I personally am particularly fond of the Ithaca Flues which is light as a feather and sturdy enough, when utilizing appropriate loads.

J.K.B. von Falkenhorst

Your Ithaca reputation precedes you. If anyone knows more about Ithacas or has nicer Ithacas than you it is a state secret. <g> Gil

All kidding aside I think the real point is that NID's offer a lot for a small price. Modern steel, solid design, modern stock dimensions, reliable function and easy to get repaired if a part breaks. All this for less than a grand in high condition. I bought a pair of 12's, from a board member, for about 700 not that long ago and they have been great rainy day guns. You can even find a nice 20 for under a grand and that is almost impossible these days for a Parker, Fox or Smith. Price wise they are stuck in between the low ends like Nitro Specials and Crescents and higher priced Smiths, Foxes and Parkers.

Style is very subjective and opinions of what looks best does enter into prices. I like how a NID looks and the supposed better looking "other" makes were not saved by their good looks. They all went under and most of them long before the NID was ended. Also numbers of gun left does help NID low prices because late production guns are more likely to still exist than guns made 50 years earlier and we are talking about guns that were all made 70 plus years ago for the most part. Rare does increase price when you want something.

I seem to remember the term "bunids" from the old clunkermeister days. As for myself, I think the old Ithaca guns look just fine...Geo

OT with a grin: this talk of "rainy day" guns. What are members saving the other guns for?

just my opinion but I love NIDs, As a duck hunter who uses doubles they are strong and in my opinion look much nicer than a Browning BSS or a Winchester 21.
As for build quality and strength the NID beats a model 21 too, I dont see NIDs with barrel hangers falling off of loose ribs or with flaking blue (common on the 21's) and John Olin went to Ithaca for the 3 1/2" 10 gauge not his own company. That says a lot, at least to me.
I love my big 10 and my 12 as well.
If all you guys were buying them I wouldn't be able to afford them, so thank you

Bluebird days, King, bluebird days!

The Western Cartridge Co.'s 3 1/2 inch Magnum-Ten gauge shell and the Magnum-framed Ithaca NID to handle it were well under development before the Olins bought the defunct Winchester Repeating Arms Co.

The deal for Western Cartridge Co. to buy Winchester Repeating Arms Co. was made on December 22, 1931, but wasn't really concluded until the Haskins & Sells auditor's report dated 20 February 1932.

The Western Super-X 10-gauge 3 1/2 inch Magnum shell first appears in the Western Ammunition for Rifle, Revolver and Shotgun booklet dated April 1, 1932, and the Magnum-Ten NID first appears in the second printing of Ithaca Gun Co.'s 1932 catalogue --





wherein they misstate that the Chas. Askins Magnum-Ten is a No. 5E when in fact it was really a No. 4E.

I knew the Canadians and Yankees hunted snipe, woodcock, and other peculiar stuff but this is the first I ever heard of y'all hunting blue birds!

Haha Mike, it's the day, not the quarry.

I am fully aware of the saying that Beauty is in the Eye of the beholder. To each his own & whichever any individual thinks looks the best, IS the best looking to that individual. But to say there is no difference in the appearance (Esthetics) between a NID & an Elsie is about like saying there's no difference in appearance between Twiggy & Mom's Mabley.

There were some issues with the early big tens. Was it Askins' gun that had the annoying habit of popping open on firing??

Jack O'Connor contributed to the misinformation that Ithacas were less expensive than the other "classic" American doubles. Although he liked Ithacas, he wrote in his "Shotgun Book": "However, the Ithaca sold for about half what the other companies got for a corresponding grade." That was pretty much true if the "other company" in question happened to be Parker. But Ithaca, LC Smith, and Fox prices were all quite close.

Mom's Mabley? Pipes, you're showing your age. Guess I showed mine by laughing and remembering her also.

Gary Cooper and Clark Gable shot Parkers. Bogie shot a 20 gauge LC Smith- Wonder if Charlie Chaplin ever bird hunted? With an Ithaca NID doublegun? If so- the remake- "The Kid and his NID"??

What exactly is NID an abbreviation for?

New Ithaca Double. It was the last design they produced and sold. It is quite stout and well suited for typical ammunition produced here in the states in that era.

Best,
Ted

New Ithaca Double


OOPS, didn't see your post, Ted

'Nother Ithaca Dementia. I have more than I need, but not more than I want, M37's that is. Gil

I nearly succumbed to the charms of an early 16ga NID before I bought my first Fox. I'm not sorry about the direction that took, but if I ever find a smokin' deal on another NID it will definitely be in the cabinet.

New Ithaca Double. Here's a 10ga. on Gunbroker right now...OOps, I was late to the name party as well.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=434733725

Regards
Ken

Back in the pre-WW-I days the Fox Sterlingworth, the K-Grade Remington, the DS-Grade Lefever and the 00-Grade L.C. Smith all had a net selling price of $25. The Field Grade Ithaca had a net sellng price of $18 and the Baker Black Beauty had a price of $19.85. Meanwhile the Parker Bros. Trojan sold for $27.50.

Lots of price comparisons are here
https://docs.google.com/a/damascusknowle...xagUSXhewGB03SE

The Ithaca Field Grade caught up with the Elsie Field Grade and Sterlingworth by 1936, which is the era O'Connor referred to specifically when he listed prices. (He gives the Ithaca Field Grade price as $39.75, which must have been a bit earlier than 1936, by which time all three were within pennies of $43.) He does say that the Ithacas weren't as expensive as Parkers, Foxes and Elsies "in the higher grades". I don't have complete price lists to compare those, which is a bit more difficult than comparing the entry-level Field Grades.

In 1918
Smith Monogram - $400
Parker AHE - $410
Ithaca No. 6E - $310
(1921 Folsom) Baker Deluxe - $385

Smith Crown - $250
Parker BHE - $300
Ithaca No. 5E - $210
1921 Baker Expert - $215

1936
Smith Monogram - $525
Parker AHE - $495

New Ithaca Double Prices

Field No. 1 No. 2 No. 3 No. 4 No. 4E No. 5E No. 7E Sousa
1926 $37.50 $47.50 $57.50 $75.00 $100.00 $117.50 $175.00 $350.00 $750.00
1927-8 $37.50 $47.50 $57.50 $75.00 $100.00 $117.50 $175.00 $350.00 $750.00
1928 $37.50 $47.50 $57.50 $75.00 $100.00 $117.50 $175.00 $350.00 $750.00
1929 $37.50 $47.50 $57.50 $75.00 $100.00 $117.50 $175.00 $350.00 $750.00
1930 $37.50 $47.50 $57.50 $75.00 $102.50 $120.00 $175.00 $350.00 $750.00
1930-1 $37.50 $47.50 $57.50 $75.00 $102.50 $120.00 $175.00 $350.00 $750.00
1931 $37.50 $47.50 $57.50 $75.00 $120.00 $175.00 $350.00 $750.00
1931-2 $37.50 $47.50 $57.50 $92.50E $120.00 $175.00 $350.00 $750.00
1932 $37.50 $47.50 $57.50 $92.50E $120.00 $175.00 $350.00 $750.00
1933 $40.55 $51.35 $62.50 $100.10E $130.00 $189.60 $379.20 $812.50
1934 $39.75 $51.35 $62.15 $100.10E $130.00 $189.60 $379.20 $812.50
1935 $39.75 $51.35 $62.15 $100.10E $130.00 $189.60 $379.20 $812.50
1936 $43.00 $62.15 $130.00 $189.60 $379.20 $812.50
1937 $43.00 $62.15 $130.00 $189.60 $379.20 $1000.00
1938 $43.00 $62.15 $130.00 $189.60 $379.20 $1000.00
1939 $45.25 $62.15 $145.00 $200.00 $379.20 $1000.00
1940 $48.79 $62.15 $145.00 $200.00 $379.20 $1000.00
06/30/40 $49.16 $62.61 $146.12 $201.55 $382.11 $1000.00
1941 $49.16 $62.61 $146.12 $201.55 $382.11 $1000.00
1942 $59.75 $74.50 $146.12 $201.55 $382.11 $1000.00
1946 $61.27 $94.45E $149.91 $206.75 $392.77 $1029.00
07/01/46 $83.15 $134.29E $207.23 $284.68 $583.37 $1587.14
11/15/46 $91.47 $147.42E $227.95 $313.15 $641.71 $1745.85
01/26/48 $141.76 $181.75E
Fall 48 $141.76 $181.75E
1949 DIS CON TIN UED DIS CON TIN UED

Guess I can't paste a table in here.

Corrected below

Close enough, Drew--comparing to what I have from the 1936 A&F catalog. Shows $43 for the Field Grade, which probably reflects the 1937 price increase. Prices for the 2 and 4E match up.

New Ithaca Double Prices

………………Field……No. 1..….No. 2..….No. 3…... No. 4.....No. 4E...…No. 5E......No. 7E……Sousa
1926….. ..$37.50..$47.50.…$57.50…..$75.00…..$100.00..$117.50....$175.00....$350.00…$750.00
1927-8…..$37.50..$47.50….$57.50……$75.00……$100.00….$117.50…..$175.00….$350.00….$750.00
1928……….$37.50..$47.50….$57.50…..$75.00…..$100.00….$117.50…..$175.00….$350.00…$750.00
1929……….$37.50..$47.50….$57.50…..$75.00…..$100.00….$117.50…..$175.00….$350.00…$750.00
1930……….$37.50..$47.50….$57.50…..$75.00…….$102.50…$120.00…..$175.00….$350.00..$750.00
1930-1……$37.50….$47.50….$57.50…..$75.00……$102.50….$120.00…..$175.00….$350.00..$750.00
1931……….$37.50…$47.50….$57.50……$75.00…………………….$120.00……$175.00….$350.00..$750.00
1931-2……$37.50….$47.50….$57.50….$92.50E…………………..$120.00……$175.00….$350.00…$750.00
1932……….$37.50….$47.50….$57.50….$92.50E…………………..$120.00…..$175.00….$350.00..$750.00
1933……….$40.55….$51.35….$62.50..$100.10E…………………..$130.00…..$189.60….$379.20..$812.50
1934……….$39.75….$51.35….$62.15..$100.10E…………………..$130.00……$189.60….$379.20..$812.50
1935……….$39.75….$51.35….$62.15..$100.10E…………………..$130.00…..$189.60….$379.20..$812.50
1936……….$43.00………………..$62.15…………………………………….$130.00……$189.60….$379.20..$812.50
1937……….$43.00………………..$62.15…………………………………….$130.00…..$189.60….$379.20.$1000.00
1938……….$43.00………………..$62.15…………………………………….$130.00……$189.60….$379.20.$1000.00
1939……….$45.25………………..$62.15…………………………………….$145.00……$200.00….$379.20.$1000.00
1940……….$48.79………………..$62.15…………………………………….$145.00……$200.00….$379.20.$1000.00
06/30/40.$49.16………………..$62.61……………………………………..$146.12…..$201.55….$382.11.$1000.00
1941……….$49.16………………..$62.61…………………………………….$146.12…….$201.55….$382.11.$1000.00
1942……….$59.75………………..$74.50…………………………………….$146.12…….$201.55….$382.11.$1000.00
1946……….$61.27………………..$94.45E………………………………….$149.91…….$206.75…..$392.77.$1029.00
07/01/46.$83.15……………….$134.29E………………………………….$207.23…….$284.68…..$583.37.$1587.14
11/15/46.$91.47……………….$147.42E………………………………….$227.95…….$313.15……$641.71.$1745.85
01/26/48.$141.76……………..$181.75E
Fall 48……$141.76……………..$181.75E
1949 DISCONTINUED